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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all XX lovers,

I don't need to explain why I swapped to a Series "Open" regulator (SH847AA) on my 99-00 XX.
I don't need to explain Standard Shunt or upgrade to MOSFET Shunt (FH020AA) still burns stators.

Just wanted to share my measurements which I am very satisfied with.

Setup for the comparaison between FH020AA and SH847AA) Amp-meter on live alternative wire from the Stator:
  • Injection XX 2000 (I relocated the SH847 to the right side as the 2001+ model instead of left side for better fresh air).
  • Lead Battery charged fully
  • Full led bulbs but test with only position indicator lamp ON, no head lamp ON, no Ventilator ON, very few electrical consumption in theory.
  • Try to hold 3k RPM on stand for measurement
  • Ampmeter measurement (Ampermetric Clamp on One of the 3 yellow live wire from the Stator)
  • Voltmeter on the battery

Figures from the SH847AA (Series Regulator):

Speedometer Motor vehicle Vehicle Odometer Gauge
Machine Gas Electronic device Engineering Auto part

3100 rpm approx
14.5VCC
10 Amp approx (I dont understand the figure of 10 Amp with mo consumption but whatever, I need to compare...).


Figures from the FH020AA (MOSFET Shunt):

Speedometer Trip computer Odometer Gauge Tachometer

Plant Electronic instrument Audio equipment Gadget Computer hardware


2900 rpm approx
14.4VCC
25 Amp approx (Again, I dont understand the figure of 25 Amp but for sure I have no extra consumption compare to 1st measurement).

The Shunt regulator drains 2.5 times more than the Serie regulator.
This valids the theory of the Shunts regulator always drain max amp from the Stator and then shunts the power within the stor coil which make the stator heating and failing.

I hope this will be the end of the "Infernal Trio" so called for problems related and interconnected to Stator, Regulator, Battery (I would say on any engine with permanent magnet generator).

I would be please to share my RR setup on the bike if anyone is interested.
I bought from France, my Genius Suzuki P/N# 32800-31J00 (A Japan made Shindengen SH847AA) from Webike (Japan).
Cost: 130 Euros SH847
Freight : 20 Euros Japan to France
Importation taxes (20% of the total invoice): 30 Euros
ChronoPost fees for Customs / Tax treatment : 20 Euros
Makes it total 200 Euros (To compare to CMS.NL website display 295 Euros ex-Works from Nederlands).

I hope this would help to anyone who wish to upgrade to a more reliable solution (I hope so).
Previously tested a Chinese fake Compufire 55402, worked as a normal Shunt R/R...

Thanks for reading,
Comments welcome.
 

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Interesting. Can I assume the voltage figures are for the output and the amp figures are for the input of the R/R? If so, then you are measuring the input of only 1 leg? Then the true amp input = measured input (Amps) x 3. ??

Edit, just looked up some formulas, it is slightly more complex than that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Fizzy,
The voltage is the output measured from the battery. The battery even fully charged never has such voltage (14.4v) whithout the charging (R/R) connected and engin reaching enough RPM. Stand alone battery would be closer to 12.8-13.0V I guess.

The Amperemeter Clamp can read only when clamping one VAC phase (Yellow wire) at the time, not 2 ou 3 phases within the Clamp (never tryied but almost sure about the magnet field around 1 wire only).

I am not skilled enough to understand the figure of Amp measured, 10 Amp on one wire... from 3...
The battery is fully charged, the higher consumption devices would be the PGM-FI pump and maybe the battery charging. Others devices, such rear LED Bulb, front positoin LED bulb (99-00 has the possibility to switch off all light, or first "position" light, main head-light / Long-range head-light) + my LED DRL daylights on the mirror...
All coul be max 10 Amp... not 3 x 10Amp!

But again, 1 or 10A with the SH847... The MOSFET Shunt is 2.5 times more (at "only" 3000 RPM as permanent Magnet Rotor creates proportionallly wattage as RPM increase I guess).
If the SH847 really opens the Coils when the voltage or consumption is not needed, at 3000 RPM or 10 000 RPM, should stay around 10A.
I think the FH020 Shunt at 10 000 will need to shunt much more wattage then at 3000RPM... this is why even MOSFET shunt R/R doesn't avoid the stator to burn.

if someone can explain the 10A figure from the SH847...
 

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I agree, the test appears to confirm that the SH847 draws less power from the stator compared to the FH020. Curious what the results are at 1500rpm. Remember the fan cycles on and off, 4-5amps perhaps.
 

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Your consumption your reading is what the R\R is dumping off the stator always has an output what you want to check is either the positive terminal wire coming into the battery or the negative terminal if you want a total system load..
My BB running the series or MOSFET R/R actually runs at a negative amperage. My meter for current is a KOSO mini amp/voltmeter. It uses a inline voltage shunt to determine voltage. My bikes total current draw is 10 Amos. When I'm running down the road I see -3.2 Amps at cruising speed. 4500 rpm.
So I know from these 2 numbers that the system is still dumping about 7 Amos into the battery. I can confirm this because my voltmeter stays at 14.6 to 14.6. So the R/R is unloading the stator current wise and still keeping the battery topped off and all my systems supplied
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I agree, the test appears to confirm that the SH847 draws less power from the stator compared to the FH020. Curious what the results are at 1500rpm. Remember the fan cycles on and off, 4-5amps perhaps.
My engine was almost cold... look at the temperature gauge, no risk of an on-off cycling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I agree, the test appears to confirm that the SH847 draws less power from the stator compared to the FH020. Curious what the results are at 1500rpm. Remember the fan cycles on and off, 4-5amps perhaps.
I am thinking about testing again with much more figures (more RPM steps) on both... from 1500 to 10000 RPM on stand, quick readings.
Easy to say but need 2 persons, away from houses, as this could be noisy...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My engine was almost cold... look at the temperature gauge, no risk of an on-off cycling.
Oups! You can not read the temperature gauge hahaha. For sur the engine was almost cold, Imade a quick test in my garage im house... on stand, no run all day.
 

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I am thinking about testing again with much more figures (more RPM steps) on both... from 1500 to 10000 RPM on stand, quick readings.
Easy to say but need 2 persons, away from houses, as this could be noisy...
It will be ok as long as you wear ear plugs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Your consumption your reading is what the R\R is dumping off the stator always has an output what you want to check is either the positive terminal wire coming into the battery or the negative terminal if you want a total system load..
My BB running the series or MOSFET R/R actually runs at a negative amperage. My meter for current is a KOSO mini amp/voltmeter. It uses a inline voltage shunt to determine voltage. My bikes total current draw is 10 Amos. When I'm running down the road I see -3.2 Amps at cruising speed. 4500 rpm.
So I know from these 2 numbers that the system is still dumping about 7 Amos into the battery. I can confirm this because my voltmeter stays at 14.6 to 14.6. So the R/R is unloading the stator current wise and still keeping the battery topped off and all my systems supplied
Hi Beestoys

I am not much interested in the BB total electrical consumption.
I am only concerned by the right R/R wich will last long (if correctly cooled) and will not burn the stator coils.
In theory since they reached the market, the Serie Regulators looks to be the best solution untill now.

Transistor Shunt R/R is burning its self and is shunting and burning the Stator Coils, some of BB owners are lucky to keep them for 50000kms but some experience many burns...

FH020AA (MOSFET) was a huge improvement as the thyristors switches much faster, accurately and generate much less heat in the R/R so last much longer but...remains a shunt system, requesting all the juice from the stator coils and shunt the excess power. Not the best for the stator...

Came the SH775 series Regulator... 30A but experience some burns itself due to heat or the failure when the engine is above 8000 RPM I read somewhere.
Anyways, Shindengen replaced SH775 by the 50A SH847 capable 10k+ RPM, with massive heat dissipers (larger than any R/R I tested).

Looks this one is the good one to last long and avoid burning the stator (many motorcyclists tested it before me).

Now if I have a dream... is the Serie Regulator using Tyristor (MOSFET) to open the coil loop instead of Shunting... as MOSFET is much cooler... It would be the perfect solution (Shindengen will sell less R/R, they already provide R/R for all motorcycles, quads, jetskis, no real competitor in the world so why would they fire a bullet on their own feet making an almost eternal Stator-R/R-Battery combo...

Again, I just wanted to verify the promissing series Regulator not shunting the stator coil and my measurements upstream the R/R (supposing I have same consumption dowstream) prove the SH847 demands less to the coil, by 2.5 times less at 3k rpm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What do you think...
upgrade to a series Regulator or
Upgrade to high value Lithium-ion battery ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Finally,
Why do I try badly to update to series regulator ?
Because back to the BB design years (before 1996) there were no much choice to use Shunt R/R...
Then MOSFET (still shunting over wattage to the ground to regulate 14.7VDC) improvement reached the market, FH020AA last much longer but the idea to produce from gasoline, from the engine, even a little power from it in comparison to the running power, from the rotor-stator, then send wattage to the shunt R/R who dump the excess wattage in heat to keep the correct voltage VDC is an unsupportable to me those days when an Serie Regulator does exist.
BTW, using engine oil above 120°C splashing it on the stator coil to cool it is an unsupportable idea to me, the fact is shunt R/R does shunt the coils to regulate the VDC 14.7V, especially when you have fully charged battery, running with upgraded bulbs (LED or HID) or you think you don't hurt the bike by riding daylight without headlamp turned ON...

Riding far from home with the possible failure of the the infernal trio (Stator-R/R-battery) and be stopped on the side of the road is unsupportable for me too.
BTW, untill I get my hands on a pre-owned SH847, I still have a redondancy FH020AA mounted at the left side (original R/R location) to swap to, on the road if main R/R failed. Both FH020 and SH847 use the same waterproof plugs...+ Dash voltmeter to keep an eye to the Infernal Trio output voltage... I ride mind free.
For all theses reasons, I really wanted to upgrade to series regulator SH847 which solve all these non-sens problems as soon as the SH847 is correctly cooled (relocated at the right side instead of left getting fresh air from the hole in the fairing like the modified by Honda BB models 2001--->2007.

Yes I hate to see the stator boiling the oil and burning in caramel like this ...
Food Rim Automotive tire Fan Automotive wheel system
 

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What do you think...
upgrade to a series Regulator or
Upgrade to high value Lithium-ion battery ?
Strange choice. Anyway, install a quality regulator, the battery is irrelevant as long as its in good shape.

To anyone reading who is now being introduced to the idea that the OEM blackbird charging system could stand an upgrade, then best bet and value is to go with a Mosfet FH020 R/R. That's what I used. No issues at all, 15000 miles + and unit runs cool as a cucumber. As stated above, an even better choice and more expensive is the SH847 series type.
At the very least, install a voltmeter on the dash. Any voltage spikes over 15V, head home at 1500rpm. Voltage spikes mean the R/R is failing. Continued use will fry the battery, stator, bulbs, dash, ECU etc.

When buying, beware of fakes. Online sites are littered with them.
 

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Patoo
I wouldn't test much above 5000 rpm. They system maxes out at that point. Going any higher is only beating up your bottom end. Especially if you do this on a cold engine. A warmed up engine will be a better data base. As you'll be reading heat resistance losses as well.
 
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