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Captmikejd
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Trying for some sage advice here once again.
Mine is a FI 03 US Bird with a little over 7K miles on it that has stock (linked) brakes. I had SS lines replacing the stock rubber lines a year ago. They added fresh rear brake pads as they said it must have been dragging or stuck on? I never noticed any smell or exesive heat so it must have been just dragging.

My rear brake lever has started to fail to function on the first depression. By the 2nd there is minor resistance and by the 3rd it operates correctly.
It also makes a noise up front (from the secondary master cylinder on the left front ) as though there was fluid moving, but noisily?

Operating the secondary master cylinder manually completely fails to pressurize the rear system.

Pumping the rear brake pedal hardens up the secondary master cylinder completely. Once pressured up that circuit remains pressured until I let off the rear brake lever?
i.e if I hold the rear brake lever down once there is pressure in that loop it stays pressured with no pedal fade whatsoever?

So I'm missing something here and likely very obvious, but I am blonde so bear that in mind for any suggestions on offer?!

I have tried all my "by the book" bleeding operations to no avail. And to the tune of probably nearly a liter of fluid through that small circuit.

Any advise is always appreciated, thanks!
 

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Capt
Buy a rebuild kit for the secondary master. What is most likely happening (did it to me) is the seals are going. What happens is that it won't leak fluid as a sign of being bad. Instead it will suck in air when the cylinder is actuated and released to home. This will build up in the system causing a bad pedal over the course of a week or 2 depending on the leak. It sucks air up in the line and takes out the rear pedal. You'll bleed it out only to have it come back.
Becareful when taking out the check ball and screen note the orientation to get it back in correct. Your also going to want to clean it out if the kit doesn't supply a new one. Be careful there is a small bearing check ball under a spring in it. The valve comes apart easily with a exacto knife on the body halves. You'll see what i mean once you get it out.
 

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Captmikejd
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62 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Brian, Joe,
Thanks guys. I was hoping one of you guys with heaps more intimate knowledge would jump in and I got concurring opinions which is even better. Partzilla it is in the morning then.
Thanks to you both,
Mike
 

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Your welcome good sir
 

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Capt
Buy a rebuild kit for the secondary master. What is most likely happening (did it to me) is the seals are going. What happens is that it won't leak fluid as a sign of being bad. Instead it will suck in air when the cylinder is actuated and released to home. This will build up in the system causing a bad pedal over the course of a week or 2 depending on the leak. It sucks air up in the line and takes out the rear pedal. You'll bleed it out only to have it come back.
Becareful when taking out the check ball and screen note the orientation to get it back in correct. Your also going to want to clean it out if the kit doesn't supply a new one. Be careful there is a small bearing check ball under a spring in it. The valve comes apart easily with a exacto knife on the body halves. You'll see what i mean once you get it out.
As you say "Buy a rebuild kit for the secondary master", would someone please help with a link or recommendation where to get such kit from? I plan to disassemble it and clean it and I would like to have the spares beforehand, to avoid placing an order for specific small part that I may find needing replacement and then waiting many days. for delivery. As you said that most likely the seals are gone, can you please help which part number you are referring? Thank you very much in advance!
 

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..., would someone please help with a link or recommendation where to get such kit from? .....
It's an OE part so you need item 4 https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/1999/cbr1100xx-a/second-master-cylinder (I don't know where the cheapest supplier currently is in your part of the world)
It also makes a noise up front (from the secondary master cylinder on the left front ) as though there was fluid moving, but noisily?
a bit of a squeak? If so this is what you are hearing this is one of the 'great unsolved mysteries' (at least it is in the UK). I went to braided lines back in 2005 and the 'squeak' appeared. It is still with me 13 years later even though the braking system has been apart/bled many times. In the UK owners failed to find any 'logic' in the noise. Some got it with braided lines the moment they were fitted, others didn't. It didn't matter about the make of the lines, still some got the noise others didn't!
80K miles later I have still learned to live with the noise ..... but it still offend me when I hear it in my garage :rolleyes:[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]

 

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Hi everybody, though I had been visiting and reading a lot in this forum, this is my first post I think, so, I salute all of you.
Anyway, I had read this post and I realize that is exactly exactly the same situation that I have with my bird and I was very concerned about the performance of the brakes.
Is really problem of the secondary cylinder?.
I hab tried to solve the problem, myself and by a mechanic but still remains the same, I am thinking to change all the system and de-link de brakes, but I am happy with the CBS...
I know this doesnt helps to solve the problem but I run out for ideas...
 

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my 2002 goldwing had the same problem and it has the same brake system as my bird and honda put a new secondary master cylinder on warrenty and that fixed it and part# for the rebuild kit is the same for both bikes
 

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Hi everyboby,
I think that I had solved the problem with my brakes, it was air in the hydraulic circuit!, I had bleed five times all the circuit and, finally the system works perfectly, I haven't changed nothing, only bleed and bleed several times the air!!€????
 

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Captmikejd
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62 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi guys,
Hoping to not having appeared ungrateful here by never having replied to your sage advice with my success story? But last year was a weird one to say the least. The BB went up on the lift, the 2ndary master cylinder got ordered and off I went on a 2 week jolly across the Atlantic. That was April, 2018. Long story short, and it is a long story I never got back to the BB or even to the house again until December 29th 2018.
After a month or so of catching up with household chores I finally got back to the BB and changed out the offending master cylinder. Next time I will remove the front wheel and fender I think? But I did manage and once the system was bled again I was back in business. But by then it was April 2019 when she finally came down off the lift again!
So thanks for all of your help as always!!
And as a side note for the The Duck, the noise in the relatively newly installed SS brake lines also went away. So I suspect my noise was just the faulty cylinder sucking air as iXXion and Beestoys diagnosed.
Thanks again to an awesome website!
Cheers,
Mike
 

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Your very welcome good sir. Glad your able to get back out on her and rack up some miles.
 
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