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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I have a problem with my bikes throttle response.

Bike is 27k km, 2007 with O2 sensor
Idle is not very good, I had to up it to 1300 rpm to be acceptable.
Throttle response is not good, bike is acting like is not getting enough fuel up to about 4000 rpm, then is good.
I have this problem since i got the bike, at 9k km, almost brand new.
What I tested until now:
no error codes
replaced the spark plugs and tested the coils, all good
new air filter k&n
cleaned the fuel filter
cleaned the all the contacts, stator/rectifier/ battery is all good.
fpr is not leaking
no leaks in the exhaust
removed the pair system
throttle cable, butterflies are all good, nice and clean.
synchronized the fi
added fuel injectors cleaner

My other honda, a carburated vfr 750 is nice and smooth on acceleration, same with the other bikes I had, or my friends bikes, so I know how it should run.

If i use a O2 sensor eliminator, the throttle response is better but not great, the fuel starvation sensation is no longer there, but idle is still fluctating about 80-90 rpm, engine is running rough still.

My question:
Is this normal? Did honda added the O2 sensor and crap fuel map for emission purposes? and it is supposed to run like this?
I even added a Power Commander III which helped but not cured the problems, most likely hiding the problem.
Your O2 equipped bikes runs the same?

What else should I test?

Thank you.
 

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Hello,

I have a problem with my bikes throttle response.

Bike is 27k km, 2007 with O2 sensor
Idle is not very good, I had to up it to 1300 rpm to be acceptable.
Throttle response is not good, bike is acting like is not getting enough fuel up to about 4000 rpm, then is good.
I have this problem since i got the bike, at 9k km, almost brand new.
What I tested until now:
no error codes
replaced the spark plugs and tested the coils, all good
new air filter k&n
cleaned the fuel filter
cleaned the all the contacts, stator/rectifier/ battery is all good.
fpr is not leaking
no leaks in the exhaust
removed the pair system
throttle cable, butterflies are all good, nice and clean.
synchronized the fi
added fuel injectors cleaner

My other honda, a carburated vfr 750 is nice and smooth on acceleration, same with the other bikes I had, or my friends bikes, so I know how it should run.

If i use a O2 sensor eliminator, the throttle response is better but not great, the fuel starvation sensation is no longer there, but idle is still fluctating about 80-90 rpm, engine is running rough still.

My question:
Is this normal? Did honda added the O2 sensor and crap fuel map for emission purposes? and it is supposed to run like this?
I even added a Power Commander III which helped but not cured the problems, most likely hiding the problem.
Your O2 equipped bikes runs the same?

What else should I test?

Thank you.
possible could need injectors cleaned tested if they are causing trouble doubt if injector cleaners goin to fix the problem if thats the issue
 

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I had to google it, this is 40mpg UK. Normal. Exhaust a little dark, yes they all are. These machines tend to run a little rich.

As above, double check injectors.

Possible defective FPR, that is not maintaining pressure, even though its not leaking?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I had to google it, this is 40mpg UK. Normal. Exhaust a little dark, yes they all are. These machines tend to run a little rich.

As above, double check injectors.

Possible defective FPR, that is not maintaining pressure, even though its not leaking?
FPR would make sense, only test I did was for leaking.
I will have to do a pressure test.

Bike is running good after 4k rpm.

O2 delete is helping, PCIII also helps, It must be something on fueling system.
 

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When you say you cleaned the throttle bodies. Did you leave the black moly coat in the bores and on the blades? If not then you may have ruined them.
Second thought check TPS voltage. It should be smooth.
 

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You say the battery is good. How old is it. I've seen this issue before put in a new battery and problem went away. Another path would be to have the AFR checked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Disconnected the TPS and there is no surging anymore, I will take if for a ride tomorrow without the sensor connected. I think bike runs on some sort of base map without tps on?

I need to take it down and inspect it, however there is no access to the sensor, and i dont want to take down the whole FI unit.

Battery is 4 years old, I will test with another one.
 

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Battery is 4yo :unsure:........ my 20c is that is the problem...... AGM batteries don't usually last that long, and even if charged every night, they may be depleted and can be damaging the R/R with continued use.

Try a load test, but make sure you leave the battery for 12hrs off charger (but in the bike) before measuring the 1st start voltage. While cranking the engine a good battery should record above 9.5v, then when the engine fires, and with the BB's cold idle keeping the revs up, 14v. A bad battery will record <9.5 and should be replaced as it is no longer accepting a full charge regardless of overnight or constant charging. I found my AGM batteries only lasted 2-3 yrs depending on usage and I have never replaced a R/R...... I just buy a new battery when the load test voltage tells me.

Best to test this asap before getting too deep into the electronics. My stock 05BB c/w O2 sensor (but with K&N airfilter) runs like an electric motor with power everywhere....... so your 07 should run smooth as silk too.

How did you do the throttle body synchro? Did you use a fluid manometer to read the differences in vacuum between the cylinders? It always sounds simple but there is a knack to getting them even and as always, time spent making sure there are no vacuum leaks makes for a good outcome and a happy smooth running BB ;).

Have a look at the workshop manual (for the 99-02 - should be good for the 07 anyway) - it's in the resources section and can be downloaded.

(y) PS I recently replaced my FPR and fuel filter as a precaution (after 16yrs and 130k kms) and tested the fuel pump flow rate as per the workshop manual flow test (cc's pumped out in 10secs test) - I didn't do the pressure test as it made sense to put a new FPR on instead of try to buy a fuel pressure gauge, and then put a new FPR on anyway......... ;).
 

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Hello,

I have a problem with my bikes throttle response.

Bike is 27k km, 2007 with O2 sensor
Idle is not very good, I had to up it to 1300 rpm to be acceptable.
Throttle response is not good, bike is acting like is not getting enough fuel up to about 4000 rpm, then is good.
I have this problem since i got the bike, at 9k km, almost brand new.
What I tested until now:
no error codes
replaced the spark plugs and tested the coils, all good
new air filter k&n
cleaned the fuel filter
cleaned the all the contacts, stator/rectifier/ battery is all good.
fpr is not leaking
no leaks in the exhaust
removed the pair system
throttle cable, butterflies are all good, nice and clean.
synchronized the fi
added fuel injectors cleaner

My other honda, a carburated vfr 750 is nice and smooth on acceleration, same with the other bikes I had, or my friends bikes, so I know how it should run.

If i use a O2 sensor eliminator, the throttle response is better but not great, the fuel starvation sensation is no longer there, but idle is still fluctating about 80-90 rpm, engine is running rough still.

My question:
Is this normal? Did honda added the O2 sensor and crap fuel map for emission purposes? and it is supposed to run like this?
I even added a Power Commander III which helped but not cured the problems, most likely hiding the problem.
Your O2 equipped bikes runs the same?

What else should I test?

Thank you.
I'm pretty sure you have to use a O2 sensor eliminator when you run a Power Commander. Otherwise the two are clashing with one another trying to get optimum idling and power. maybe look into this a bit more!!
 

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Hello,

I have a problem with my bikes throttle response.

Bike is 27k km, 2007 with O2 sensor
Idle is not very good, I had to up it to 1300 rpm to be acceptable.
Throttle response is not good, bike is acting like is not getting enough fuel up to about 4000 rpm, then is good.
I have this problem since i got the bike, at 9k km, almost brand new.
What I tested until now:
no error codes
replaced the spark plugs and tested the coils, all good
new air filter k&n
cleaned the fuel filter
cleaned the all the contacts, stator/rectifier/ battery is all good.
fpr is not leaking
no leaks in the exhaust
removed the pair system
throttle cable, butterflies are all good, nice and clean.
synchronized the fi
added fuel injectors cleaner

My other honda, a carburated vfr 750 is nice and smooth on acceleration, same with the other bikes I had, or my friends bikes, so I know how it should run.

If i use a O2 sensor eliminator, the throttle response is better but not great, the fuel starvation sensation is no longer there, but idle is still fluctating about 80-90 rpm, engine is running rough still.

My question:
Is this normal? Did honda added the O2 sensor and crap fuel map for emission purposes? and it is supposed to run like this?
I even added a Power Commander III which helped but not cured the problems, most likely hiding the problem.
Your O2 equipped bikes runs the same?

What else should I test?

Thank you.
Swap out the FPR, dip your oil for the presence of petrol, you'll be able to smell it on the stick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Update:

no smell of fuel in oil, tested the fpr for leaks, there are none. I might replace the fpr anyway. are there upgraded fpr around? not sure if oem is best way to go.

Battery will be replaced today.

About the TPS, took it off and clean it, measured for resistance, first part of the rotation was crap: 0.35-0.32-0.37-0.35, after 0.40 was nice and smooth.
I calibrated the TPS on bike, engine running, close throttle is 0.80, max open is 5.5
Do you believe that 0.80 is a bit high? thing is bike loved it, engine is running a lot better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Update 2:

-replaced the battery just for testing, no difference.
-O2 delete kit added, muuuch better but not 100% ok, I believe my O2 sensor is busted.
-added the PC3 and a good map that I like.
-cleaned and calibrated the TPS for a higher initial voltage, 0.80, bike is running almost perfect at this point.
-recalibrated the throttle position using the power commander software.

As far as I can tell, the bike is running good, but more testing must be done.
I will try a leaner map for smoother operating, as I believe the actual AFR is not good.
 

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Update 2:

-replaced the battery just for testing, no difference.
-O2 delete kit added, muuuch better but not 100% ok, I believe my O2 sensor is busted.
-added the PC3 and a good map that I like.
-cleaned and calibrated the TPS for a higher initial voltage, 0.80, bike is running almost perfect at this point.
-recalibrated the throttle position using the power commander software.

As far as I can tell, the bike is running good, but more testing must be done.
I will try a leaner map for smoother operating, as I believe the actual AFR is not good.
Hey Marco, how's the bike running? mine seems to be doing exactly as yours was
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hey Marco, how's the bike running? mine seems to be doing exactly as yours was
hey!
same, unfortunately.

it is not the TPS, or the PC or any of the maps...

I still have some tests to run, someone on facebook told me he had a similar problem, he solved it...had something to do with the air filter case.

If u have an update pls send me a PM.

thx.
 

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Hello,

I have a problem with my bikes throttle response.

Bike is 27k km, 2007 with O2 sensor
Idle is not very good,.......
.........
engine is running rough still.

My question:
Is this normal? Did honda added the O2 sensor and crap fuel map for emission purposes? and it is supposed to run like this?
I even added a Power Commander III which helped but not cured the problems, most likely hiding the problem.
Your O2 equipped bikes runs the same?

What else should I test?

Thank you.
G'day marc98ro,

Sad to hear your Bird is still running poorly.

In answer to your original question your 07BB should run sweet, like my 05BB, which has almost 130k kms up from new...... I also had an 02BlackBB prior to going Blue and put 54k kms on it in 3 years, trading in on the 05BlueBird not knowing what I know now!

They both run/ran perfectly in stock trim with a K&N filter.

Even now, after all those years and 130k kms (82k miles) my BB runs like an electric turbine after a throttle body synchro - but the skill with vacuum fluid synchro's (dial gauges are inaccurate) is to eliminate all air leaks. That said, and assuming you did that, there must be something affecting your 15yo bike.......so if there are no cracked hoses/manifolds/age related issues or corroded connectors, no wet fuel stain in the FPR vacuum line or petrol smell in the engine oil, you will have to start again from the basics.

Do you know the bikes history? - modifications/storage/crash repair/abuse/neglect/poor servicing/corrosion from road spray...etc .....might be a clue to why it doesn't go properly, but it should have heaps of grunt down low and go like stink up high. Known issues in a wet damp climate (Europe) on early bikes were the 'Loom fix' and fan sensor. I've not had the pleasure as I fitted a hugger and garaged my BB when not on tour, and Honda might have secretly fixed those issues.

I didn't read all the posts this time so sorry if you've explained before, but do you have aftermarket mufflers? Though these shouldn't affect the FI Birds as badly as mufflers and K&N filter did on the carby Bird - does yours run ok with a stock paper airfilter or standard mufflers? I thought I read somewhere on here that a member replaced his O2 sensor as the old one had gone faulty with age. Mine is still there....somewhere.....I've never touched it.

27k kms is nothing, mileage wise.... these things run to enormous numbers with just regular basic oil changes and the usual plugs & fluids ....Even the cam chain is good for 100k kms.

My prime suspect for age related issues is the FPR but you would be getting crap fuel economy and really black exhaust tips - check the trouble shooting specs in the workshop manual available for download in the resources section on the forum......the 99-02 is still current for the later FI models. Age related issues can be a headache on really low usage bikes like yours......and now mine, as it no longer does any real work (like me)........ :eek:

(y)

PS

I didn't bother to pressure test my fuel system when I treated my tank for rust , instead I checked the pumps flow rating (pumped the specified amount of fuel out in 10secs as per the manual) and replaced the original fuel filter and the ageing but still ok FPR (instead of buying a pressure tester for just 1 test).

Maybe the injectors have gummed up from lack of use, but I would think a couple of tankfulls with injector cleaner would cure that .....mine are untouched and perform perfectly even though I haven't been riding my BB over the last 5+years (I start it and run it up until the fans cut in twice monthly and keep the fluids up to date etc, hoping one day I will be able to get on it again).

If your BB has a full system exhaust instead of the collector box then you're in unknown territory and may require camshaft re-timing or other fine tuning to get the best out of it. Could your TPS sensor be an issue? I see this in recent posts.

Good luck and I hope you discover the cause soon so you can enjoy a great bike.

(y)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
hey, thank you all for posting here, i have solved my problem.

it was a combination of problems:
  • bad fpr
  • bad tps
  • one vacuum was a little bit cracked

In case anyone else is having a similar problem, check these parts.

thx again and happy riding! :)
 
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