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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Sorry to be a bore people but any feedback on the above product? Thanks.
I'm considering using some in the bird.
If recommended, how would you advise putting it in the bike? It's currently full of Honda coolant so I was considering syringing some out of the resoivoir tank to make room for it. Apparently you add 5% of this stuff to the total cooling system capacity (i.e., 5% of 3.2lt).
 

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Cheers Nato,

Are there claimed benefits for adding it to your coolant? Is your Bird overheating? There may be something wrong with the thermostat, or the fins may be dirty, or the coolant might be over 3yo, or the pump may be leaking..... or it may need a new 1.1 cap. The BB will run big temps in traffic on a hot day due the close fitting fairing cowls, but the fan should cut in at 100C and control the temp but it's normal to see 103C or in extreme circumstances mine's gone to109C briefly (fkn hot day and traffic at a standstill, jackets sweaty etc)...... but it should never get over (?) I think the manual says 120C but I haven't checked......

I've just flushed my system out with 3 hot water fills and one hot deminerlised final long flush, and put in Honda type 2 'blue' coolant ($20 a bottle - my system will only accept 3ltrs not 3.2 - no matter what hoses I unclip or squeeze or that I siphon out the left bottom corner of the rad and unscrew the engine block drain bolt etc) that all current Honda's come with from the factory. It has a service life of 3 yrs and a temp rating of 108C.

I have also used Nulon Longlife 'green' (1:1 ratio) coolant over the decades and it has a service life of 4yrs and a max temp around 120-130C from memory.

Make sure the additive won't affect the coolant that's already in the system - it should be a non-silica type as specified by Honda so as not to wear out the coolant pump seals.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
My fan started to cut in at 105 and switch off at 100 degrees c. That was a change Dave as it used to switch off at 95. Some of the fins are bent, about 15-20 percent but the radiator itself is clean and clear of crud.
Just to be safe I ordered another OEM radiator.
I also fitted a new thermstat and coolant sensor and the fan now come on at 103 and off at 97, so some gains have been made.
The bird is not running too hot just the fan's behaviour recently changed. So that why I've been looking into cooling issues and came accross mocool.
The way it was explained to me was that mocool changes the way the coolant flows around the engine and passes around corners. For example, if the coolant has to flow around a 90 degree bend, the mocool prevents eddies and makes is flow more freely. It improves thermal exchange and reduces hot spots. It can cool the system quicker. I think it changes the surface tension of the coolant and thus reduces operating temps by a number of degree. Aparently as much as 15, so it sounds good. It says it is compatable with aliminium and won't hurt plastic. Please have a read and tell me what you think, PDF attached.
 

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Ahhhhh, it's a Motul product........ so it's gotta be good! :D

I read somewhere on the forum about cooling fans cutting in late....... I think it was wiring harness related from memory, so check the two big electrical plug connections on the LH side of the battery near the rear foot peg (under the rear body work. They have been reported as being prone to road spray and corrosion on BB's without a rear hugger....... mine are pristine as I put a hugger on 15yrs ago.

My fans still trigger at 100C and cut off at 94C as they did when new....... I know this because for the last 3yrs I've been starting mine and running it up to full temp in the garage (approx 10-15mins) monthly (I could not ride it in 2018 due heart surgery & 12mths recovery :(, followed by rapidly decaying pre existing hip damage and total hip replacement surgery in june this year.... whew, what a saga :rolleyes:... I have been teetering on the brink of selling the BB - But I have just ridden it (only 10kms) and I now think I can work my way back into riding it......... :D.........).

The MoCool sounds great but it may also conceal the primary issue. I am surprised you could buy a new radiator for the BB, and the old one is probably still ok but a new one removes all the doubt.......

(y)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Firstly, thanks again mate and sorry about all the health issues.
Secondly, where did you get your rear hugger from and is it a good one? Does it look cool?
Thirdly, where the wiring harness is concened, what exactly am I checking/looking for? What is the fix if it is corroded? I have no idea Dave.
I have cleaned and checked virtually every bit of that bike including plugs and connections as the bike was filthy. I did come across some corrosion but it was mainly rust on the subframe and bolts. How do I check that electrical stuff properly. That's above my pay-grade. I can ask Honda to do it but what am I asking them to check and test for exactly? If you can take photos of the bits I should be looking at, I would be eternally grateful. Sorry to ask, no pressure of course, especially with your hip the way it is.
Honda probably have no clue either so specifics are important. After all, it was their idea to replace the thermostat and coolant temp sensor in relation to the fan problem. But I reckon you're onto something Dave because the fan is still misbehaving and not cooling like yours does. I think it is still within acceptable limits though, 103 degress to 98 seems okay don't you think?
 

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Nato, you may be looking for trouble where there is none. I assume you have a digital dash machine with actual temperature readout. Do you feel the bike is running too hot? What is a typical high temp you see?
Anyway, type "loom fix" into site search engine for details of corroded connector mentioned by Aussie Dave. Can cause strange electrical maladies. Repairing this requires some light electrical work and soldering. If the bike has corrosion, then this should at least be checked.
IMHO, having Honda look at it just gives them a green light to give you a big bill.
 

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What fizzy said........ (y)

My rear hugger is a Pyramid Plastics one and I had a choice of black or carbon look............ it works really well and isn't easily seen as it is covered by the body work...... here's a pic, but google Pyramid Plastics or Hugger for Blackbird and see what's available.

The connectors mentioned in the loom fix....... mine are covered up now by the rear body cowl, so I can't take a pic. They are large plastic connector blocks (one white, the other yellow on my 05BB). I just unclipped and inspected the pins and plates. The UK guys have issues as they often ride in wet conditions and as has been reported, without a hugger water spray can get into these plugs. If you remove your rear body cowl, you will see them hanging outside the subframe between the battery and the rear peg hanger, just near the grab handle....... slide the plastic cover off and unclip and slide them apart. Hopefully they are fine, but spray some contact cleaner on them and work them clean to get a good contact - check the wires leading into the connector cases. Probably not your issue but.......

As fizzy says, maybe your BB just reads a bit higher than mine, but you did observe a change, so that means something has changed....... be it an earth or a connector or a wire, even the key switch might be worn or have a cracked solder joint. That reminds me.... spray some cleaner into the handlebar switch blocks (starter & indicator) to make sure they are working fine - if your H7 doesn't work and the bulb is not blown, as I discovered on mine, it can be the starter button is dirty.

Don't panic if the new radiator is no longer available as I doubt you need it if the old one doesn't leak.(fins can be straightened using a rad comb, or a small flat screw driver and some patience).... but do buy a new 1.1 rad cap and make sure there are no air bubbles in the system by squeezing hoses with the rad cap off and engine running (on the side stand so as not to spill coolant) - you will see the flow when the thermostat opens around 80C (I think) and a few smooth squeezes helps clear any bubbles....... maybe they have already cleared by riding and perhaps the main radiator just needs a top up to full? Check the catch tank has fluid between the min & max marks.

Does the water pump have any coolant stains around it's drain hole? They usually only last to about 90-100k kms but some may wear out earlier if the coolant isn't changed every 3 yrs.

Good luck, hope you find it's something simple and easy to fix (y)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Nato, you may be looking for trouble where there is none. I assume you have a digital dash machine with actual temperature readout. Do you feel the bike is running too hot? What is a typical high temp you see?
Anyway, type "loom fix" into site search engine for details of corroded connector mentioned by Aussie Dave. Can cause strange electrical maladies. Repairing this requires some light electrical work and soldering. If the bike has corrosion, then this should at least be checked.
IMHO, having Honda look at it just gives them a green light to give you a big bill.
You're probably right Fizzy about looking for problems where there is none. I do magnify things a bit in my mind. However, the fan has changed its behaviour all of a sudden and used to work like clockwork, coming on at 105 and off 10 degress lower. So I have observed a noticable differnce in behaviour.
The bike's temp in traffic is typically 105-107. On the open road it is very cool at 80-82 degrees C. It is an 05 bird with a digital dash, under 30 thousand kms on the clock. I found it in a farmers shed,not well cared-for, 9 months ago but has been mechanically A1 until fan issue. I'm not really worried but there is a fault somewhere. Finding it will be mission impossible and I dont have the skills. I'm a rider not a mechanic. Reading about 'loom fixes' will probably just stress me out. It will be too much information. However, I will inspect the bits Dave is talking about and clean them with contact cleaner.
Thanks for your post mate. Please let me know if you think the bike is running too hot
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What fizzy said........ (y)

My rear hugger is a Pyramid Plastics one and I had a choice of black or carbon look............ it works really well and isn't easily seen as it is covered by the body work...... here's a pic, but google Pyramid Plastics or Hugger for Blackbird and see what's available.

The connectors mentioned in the loom fix....... mine are covered up now by the rear body cowl, so I can't take a pic. They are large plastic connector blocks (one white, the other yellow on my 05BB). I just unclipped and inspected the pins and plates. The UK guys have issues as they often ride in wet conditions and as has been reported, without a hugger water spray can get into these plugs. If you remove your rear body cowl, you will see them hanging outside the subframe between the battery and the rear peg hanger, just near the grab handle....... slide the plastic cover off and unclip and slide them apart. Hopefully they are fine, but spray some contact cleaner on them and work them clean to get a good contact - check the wires leading into the connector cases. Probably not your issue but.......

As fizzy says, maybe your BB just reads a bit higher than mine, but you did observe a change, so that means something has changed....... be it an earth or a connector or a wire, even the key switch might be worn or have a cracked solder joint. That reminds me.... spray some cleaner into the handlebar switch blocks (starter & indicator) to make sure they are working fine - if your H7 doesn't work and the bulb is not blown, as I discovered on mine, it can be the starter button is dirty.

Don't panic if the new radiator is no longer available as I doubt you need it if the old one doesn't leak.(fins can be straightened using a rad comb, or a small flat screw driver and some patience).... but do buy a new 1.1 rad cap and make sure there are no air bubbles in the system by squeezing hoses with the rad cap off and engine running (on the side stand so as not to spill coolant) - you will see the flow when the thermostat opens around 80C (I think) and a few smooth squeezes helps clear any bubbles....... maybe they have already cleared by riding and perhaps the main radiator just needs a top up to full? Check the catch tank has fluid between the min & max marks.

Does the water pump have any coolant stains around it's drain hole? They usually only last to about 90-100k kms but some may wear out earlier if the coolant isn't changed every 3 yrs.

Good luck, hope you find it's something simple and easy to fix (y)
Hey Dave, thanks for the detailed post mate. These are some things I can do straight away and easily.
The radiator is ordered, won't it come with a radiator cap? If so, I won't purchase another one in the mean-time. But good suggestion. The fan situation is wierd. Changing the sensor helped lower its cut in and out temp but didn't return it to it prior behaviour, turning on at 105 and off at 95. So there's still a ghost in the machine somewhere but looks like the sensor helped contribute to rectifying it somehow. Now turns on at 103 and off at 98. Anyway, I just want it to cool the bike down like it used too, if at all possible. On that note, it will he interesting to see what happens when the new radiator goes in.
Where's the water pump btw, I'll have a look for leaks and weeps. Also, when you say 1.1 radiator cap what do you mean by 1.1?
Thank you,
Nathan.
 

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On my car, the temp gauge reaches a middle position and NEVER moves. On the blackbird (FI) the gauge goes up and down what seems to be an excessive amount. They all do it, I guess its normal.
If you are not comfortable with electrics, just leave the loom fix alone. The offending connector is buried inside the loom.
Before you change the rad, I would simply straighten out all the fins, it may help.
 

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Nato
Daves refering to the pressure rating. They can be listed in pounds or BAR the 1.1 is a BAR rating. The factory is a 1.0 or 14.5 psi or 1 atmosphere. 15.95 you could run a 1.5 and it will help to keep the BB a bit cooler with out fear of over pressurizing the system.
 

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Sorry mate, had to rush out this morning....... was trying not to rush my earlier reply...... those plugs look good - Bees and fizzy mentioned the bit I forgot in my haste to get out the door, but I don't think your model BB will have suffered the 'loom' issue.

If the new rad comes complete with a cap then good...... if not, they are in stock at Honda in Melbourne or the same item is available via Wemoto in Aus....... $54 for the pretty Honda cap or $17 for the ordinary MCS (looks like a car rad cap) accessory that my local Honda shop sold to me. It works ok! Just like with cars, you don't need the factory cap...... it's probably made in the same factory as the accessory caps.

Have you test ridden the BB to see if all your work settles down with a good 40minute ride? All that matters is that it doesn't go over 109C (I think the owners manual or the workshop manual here on the forum resource center states 123C is overheating! - check that out as I'm winging it this evening and I might be all gas and no substance).

One simple test you can do is to check for old "vehicle wiring creepage"...... :LOL:....... I was reminded of this test when I picked up a battery instruction leaflet....... it said to test ageing electrical systems with a multimeter set on 'amps' and wait see if the reading across the battery terminals is below 0.02amps......... key off - just straight on the terminals while the battery is hooked up in the bike - mine settled it's reading at 0.01amps so that meant I had no electrical leakage issues due to ageing wiring, corrosion, or components slowly going off.

The other test you can do is for the charging system...... leave the BB off any battery charger overnight so you can do a "cold cranking test", and set the multimeter for volts. The battery should show about 12+v key off, then with key on 10-11v, then while cranking the engine into life the volts should drop but still be above 9.5v - if they are below 9v then your battery is kaput and will damage the alternator or reg/rect with continued use. Battery chargers hide this by filling up a worn out battery so that it tricks the voltmeter into showing healthy readings (hence the 12hr/overnight pause from charging).

When the engine fires into life on fast idle or you hold the revs at say 1500-2000, the reading should be near 14v but not over 14.5 or below I think 13v....... bikes with a good alternator and reg/rectifier and battery usually show 13.9 or 14.1v above idle, dropping to 13.something at idle (which you should set to 1200rpms anyway to prevent stalling in a tight 'u' turn).

These are simple checks you can do with a $30 multimeter from Repco or Supadear auto and they will tell you if you really do have a problem that might be affecting the fan cut in/out.

Hope I haven't rattled you too much........ let me know how you go with the multimeter tests...... the 05 (mine) is a pretty indestructable machine (y)
 

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The pics you show are of the stator to regulator connector, not the loom fix connector. Anyway, what you show looks good, this particular connector tends to melt when there is charging trouble.
As Aussie Dave suggests, get a cheap multimeter and test running voltage at battery terminals. 12.5V at idle to 14.5V at 5000prm roughly. Below 12v or over 15v possible charging issues. Low volts at idle could affect fan as it may not be getting enough juice. My 2c, based on this thread, there is no problem to fix.
 

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Ahhh, the water pump location...... it's down in front of your left toes...... if the fairing is on then it is hidden, but you can just see the drain bolt in through the black plastic heat shielding panel....... it has three big fat hoses coming & going to thermostat and radiator and cyl block. I think if you place a white plastic cover under that area you will see any coolant coloured drops next morning...... otherwise you'll have to lay down beside BB and try to look up underneath for a drain hole - typically it drips into the sound deadening foam on the inside of the fairing cowl..... but my new pump (installed at 120k kms) had it in a different position, probably to clear the foam (which prevents noticing the drip for months). However, if the catch tank level doesn't change over several 000kms then you're not losing coolant this way.

My bet is an old rad cap if it hasn't been replaced already as they can cause a loss of pressure and higher temps. I have changed my rad caps every second coolant change (eg approx 6-8 yrs) just to be sure. The Honda cap is pretty and round, the MCS cheapie has two knobs each side like a car cap so it is a fiddle to get it screwed on fully, but it works the same.

(y)

PS Flushing the coolant is easy but there is a good way, and a not so good way to do it.

I use hot water boiled in the kitchen kettle to fill 3ltrs and drain.... twice until clear water flows out the pump drain and the cyl head drain bolts, then I boil some demineralized water and fill 3ltrs and again run the bike for a while, let cool a fraction, and dump by drain screws and removing hoses from the rad. I also siphon pump out the lower left corner of the rad (on side stand) and drain the right side hose from the thermostat. The catch tank was done first and cleaned with a rag on a wire handle. This gets all the old coolant out by keeping the thermostat open. I've never been able to get 3.2ltrs back in..... mine swallows 3 bottles and it's chokka's....... with catch tank on the max mark sothere's probably 200cc of demin water hiding in there somewhere. Airbubbles need to be massaged out while filling the rad with the engine running and cap off (after letting the beast cool down from flushing). My cousin the pro bike mechanic does it this way.

An airbubble could cause a temp fluctuation, but I would expect to see the system suck up all the catch tank contents as it cools down unless the rad cap is defective.
 

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The bird can get an air pocket that can refuse to move. It's not a common thing but is possible. If you have it in the side stand as Dave states, fill it slowly and burp it as he recommends your 99% sure to get any pockets out. The rest will bleed as its run.
 

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There are 2 bleed screws on the cooling system. 1 on the water pump (drain screw) and 1 just above the LHS exhaust header. Simply crack them loose 1-2 turns only, with engine on, to burp the air out.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
OMG! I fixed it with contact cleaner. I cant believe it.
I did as Dave suggested but went full feral with it and spayed it in every electrical plug and connection I could find, including the ECU/ECM. I waited until it dried, plugged them back in, fired up the bike and found that the fan now turns-on at 100 and off at 94 degress C. I'm so happy, that's better than even.
Where the ECU is concerned, could that have helped? It was dirty. Or was it the wiring loom thingo on the left or the various plugs under the seat that helped?
Anyway, you guys gave me great advice and all Honda did was replace things that weren't broken.
Thanks to everyone that posted. It was empowering.
 
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