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Discussion Starter #1
hi Guys
i just had the old battery on my black xx fail while underway and had to bump start the bike
twice, the battery came with the bike and was sitting for years , i gave it a long charge but it seems not to hold the charge enough for starting
so i took the battery out of the red xx and it was very very light
then i saw its a lipo battery from jmt china
i have now connected it to the black one
my question
do i need to make a mod to the black one to cater for the lipo or just go with it...
the red one appears to have no odd/ special voltage controller just a tourmax aftermarket one
thanks for the feed back
paul
 

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Discussion Starter #3
many thanks mr B ;-))
those lipo batteries are super expensive... about 3 gel for 1 lipo... wow
 

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I've been reading about Li Ion batteries as my AGM battery has dropped below 9.5v cold cranking... so it's near death.... actually, it was 9v last start so it's fkd. There's a good article in the forum tech section.

Li Ion batteries fit straight in so long as the are the correct spec for the bike (350+CCAs etc etc), but they need a healthy in-bike charging system (eg 14-14.5v across the terminals above idle rpms). They have tighter voltage tolerances than AGM but are lighter weight and stronger starting..... but are also more prone to vibration.....

For maintenance charging, a Li Ion battery can be damaged by the automatic/smart chargers designed for lead acid/AGM/Gel batteries. The charging algorithm they use is way different to what a Li Ion battery needs and lead acid/AGM chargers can easily be tricked into overcharging a Li Ion battery and killing it.....Google Li Ion batteries for more info.

Best to test your Reg Rect and alternator output as these may have been the cause of the battery failure.

Install a voltmeter to the dash/handlebar so you can easily check your cold starting volts - your battery will tell you it is starting to hurt the alternator/reg-rect eg when it drops below 9.5v on 1st start of the day (no overnight plug in charging).

(y)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
indeed the cost to weight saving is like 100 eur / lb
more than champagne...
btw i came upon an interesting string educating me about RR in detail
 

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They say "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"

Confucius say "too much knowledge gives man a headache"

Anyway, good read Paul, thanks for that.
 

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I've been running a shoria lithium iron for 5 years now with no issues. I've even deep cycle discharges this thing 3 times as the result of a stator failure. ( welcome to my hell operating environment the desert). Shorai states you can use a standard battery charger as long as it doesn't have a desolation function. They do recommend balancing the cells yearly. So I purchased thier charger balancer as well. I will say the lithium don't like cold weather. They don't crank as well as during the summer. I'll see my line voltage drop to 10 volts on a real cold night. ( yes we do get them during the winter month). But I'll also say it's probably a by product if deep cycling this thing as well.
That all being said at 150 to 180 it's been a great investment. I was able to nearly double my CCA's to 315 but maintain a Y14 case series which fits the birds battery box. You simply have to remove the rubber spacers in the bottom and it drops in. And it only weighs about 2 pounds.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I've been running a shoria lithium iron for 5 years now with no issues. I've even deep cycle discharges this thing 3 times as the result of a stator failure. ( welcome to my hell operating environment the desert). Shorai states you can use a standard battery charger as long as it doesn't have a desolation function. They do recommend balancing the cells yearly. So I purchased thier charger balancer as well. I will say the lithium don't like cold weather. They don't crank as well as during the summer. I'll see my line voltage drop to 10 volts on a real cold night. ( yes we do get them during the winter month). But I'll also say it's probably a by product if deep cycling this thing as well.
That all being said at 150 to 180 it's been a great investment. I was able to nearly double my CCA's to 315 but maintain a Y14 case series which fits the birds battery box. You simply have to remove the rubber spacers in the bottom and it drops in. And it only weighs about 2 pounds.
indeed Bees the company where i work sells lipo and lion for years for the modelling field
these batteries dont like the cold at all and " sieze up " they are best at about 25 deg c under 10 deg c they need warming up
on tesla cars they have a warming system for the batteries to keep them alive in places like quebec and alberta
but to do that you loose about 15 pct of the initial charge and the car will still be sluggish till the pack gets to normal temp
 

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Cheers all,

I was keen on a Li Ion, until I checked my battery terminals and discovered my AGM battery (with 350cca) was still good...... the terminals didn't appear loose, but once I put a torqx key on I learned a lesson......(they were just soft enough to look tight, but made my KTM in dash voltmeter read lower than my workshop multimeter!). Fixed 4 free!

Also, I recently watched another U=tube video, made by an electrician who was researching a stronger battery for his late model KTM 500 EXC mx bike. He noted that Shorai was the only brand he found (I think it was in 2017) that had cell equalizing tech. He explained how a non cell balancing charger could cause one or more of the Li cells to go into an overcharged state and potentially burst into flames...... he uses a fire proof box to safely charge his Li Ion batteries so he doesn't burn down his shop/house. The footage of exploding Li Ion batteries was spectacular!

This fits in with the previous article I read which detailed the different algorithms used for Li Ion chargers vs Pb acid/AGM/Gel batteries. They also stated a standard charger could be used, within strict limits, but never continuously like an AGM battery tender.

The U-Tube sparky mentioned that the Shorai Li Ion charger has in addition to it's 3rd lead for cell balancing/maintenance etc, a storage function button which reduces the battery to 60% for safe long term storage. Li Ion batteries should not be kept fully charged in storage. I'm not a tech so I can't explain why, but Shorai recommends it....

A case of know your product or beware...... luckily, I discovered my AGM was still cold cranking at 10.3v and didn't need to be replaced. Next time,...... maybe...... :unsure:..... maybe not.... I'll think again when I need to.

Well worth a look if you google for Li ion batteries and read the technical articles. Ignore the reviews........ some knowledge always helps to understand the limitations (y)
 

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