[beestoys]

Sounds good. I've already mapped mine some using my zetronix wide band. But having an autotune would make it much easier. The best option would be to have the ecm reflashed with the pc offsets. But there is only one possible source that was mentioned here a while back. But im not sure if they could dk the type of mod I'm thinking.

 

[Reston_XX]

Interesting thread! I've been playing with logging A/F devices for the past year or two and have learned a lot about XX A/F mapping with a Power Commander. First off DO NOT get an Innovate LM-2 A/F logger. They look great and work great, when they work, which is rarely. Mine froze up constantly and Innovate said it is a known problem that they had no fix for (WTF!) I just started started running a Zeitronix ZX-2 with Black Box data logger and it looks promising but there may be a major functional flaw that makes it ineffective. Just testing the ZT-2 setup now.

What I learned from logging A/F, RPM and TPS over the past 1-2 years is that the factory XX tune is WAY rich for a modified bird'. If you're running a PC with an all zeros map (why?) that's why you're seeing horrible mileage and charcoal out the pipe.

I have a 2000 XX w/PC3 (non USB) custom exhaust, flow bench ported head and drop in cams. After logging A/F. RPM and TPS with a target of low/mid 13's A/F under acceleration and low 14's for cruising my WHOLE map turned out to be negative values. I at first though something had to be wrong but the results don't lie. The bike accelerates like it has a turbo from any RPM/TP to rev limiter, super responsive anywhere I get on it and it gets great mileage when just cruising.

Hopefully I get the Zeitronix ZX-2 setup worked out in next week or so. It's a nice setup but this major functional flaw may be a deal breaker. I still have a few fat spots that could use some fine tuning. I'm also going to be getting a PC3 USB because of the easier mapping interface over the non USB model.

 

[Cobra94]

Thanks for the Innovate warning, anytime you search A/F data logger their name comes up but never the horror stories. My reason for running the zero map was to make sure the adaptation of the PCV to the bike was working properly before continuing on with the rest of the setup. I did notice that the mileage did drop slightly from before having the PCV hooked up.

The Bird does run rich and the secondary map I was running (as a test of the dual map system) pulled fuel from almost everywhere above 5K rpm & >50% throttle as well. I believe there are two issues here, one being that the ram air is not fully in effect when dyno tuning even if you are running blowers at the front of the bike but that is maybe 1-2% of the issue. The second is that I think Honda went conservative on the high RPM side of things to protect the motor from leaning out and/or overheating. Pure speculation on my part but plausible.

NA bikes had the benefit of not having (ex. Cali bikes) the O2 sensor for emissions. I bet Euro bikes are a lot leaner <5K than our bikes, I know from my Ducati that the O2 sensor is ignored after 5K so it seems to be an industry thing much like the noise measurement RPM rule (Max RPM/2). My Duc is Euro 3 compliant and they are at 4 or more by now so probably at the limit.

 

[beestoys]

Reston
I agree with your results as well. I loaded up the overseas map that had negatives across the board and still ended taking out a bunch of fuel to get it closer to 13.8. When I talked to power commander the engineer there said that 13.8 is their target number for thier maps. I have the zeitronix AFR unit but did a live video of the readout with a gopro and then synched that to a capture program for a small tablet. I ran it in a tail trunk that had the usb hooked up and the active cell function of the power commander program running. It's a little tricky synching them up but it worked pretty well. Looking to go the same route as Cobra and drg and adapt over a PCV

 

[moulae]

So someone asked in my turbo-thread how to use a PCV for a Blackbird. Well i was going to use a Pc3 until i realized that a Pcv would work just fine with some smaller adjustments. The only thing a power commander does as a stand alone unit with no extra accessories is to alter the signal for each injector to make the opening time shorter or longer. This means that any PC will fit any bike as long as you have the right cables. Many new bikes will use a multi-connector for all the fuel injectors, ignition coils and throttle position sensor. To be able to make a PCV work you could cut and paste in this type of harness but it will be a bit more complicated to sort out what colour that does what. The easier way was to search through the manuals for different model specific power commanders until i found one using sort of similar connectors as a blackbird. 4 separate connectors for the injectors and one for the throttle position sensor. The unit i took was to fit a Honda Cbf1000f 06-09. Dynojet part number is DJ16-012. After this you need to cut away these bits from the harness, three of the injector connectors will have a looped cable for the power feed to the pcv. The fourth injector will have the red cable going in to the unit. This is the power feed for the Pcv as the injectors have a constant positive power feed and the negative side is used to control the opening of them. View attachment 53268 View attachment 53269 You will also need connectors and if you want to do it properly buy a crimp-tool instead of trying to fold the small metal clips with a plier. Hx090 male and female connectors bought from Motorcycle Terminals, Connectors, and Wiring Accessories View attachment 53271 Tadaa! Finished Honda connectors, and don't forget the small seals! View attachment 53272 The grey cable is just as on a pc3 the sensor volt cable and is tapped in to the Tps in exactly the same way. On the Pc3 there could be issues with unstable Tps readings and this was due to the sensor volt ground being tapped directly on the battery negative. Thus using this ground for the sensor the voltage between the sensor ground and remaining power feed on the bike will end up fluctuating causing the Tps percentage to flicker in the Pc3 program. When doing the procedure in a dyno this can make it very hard to get any proper tps reading at low throttle openings making the data useless for compensating in the map. The sensor ground is the black cable with a white stripe on it and is tapped in to the green/orange cable. View attachment 53269 Finished Tps connector, i like to be able to disconnect it instead of soldering directly on the tps cables. View attachment 53270 As i am currently building on my bike i tapped in a 3p connector at the Tps to be able to also use the +5v feed for sensors to tap in my extra map-sensor. This is connected to a extra wire harness that i have built and thats why i only have a 2p connector on the picture with the plug for the tps to the Pcv. I forgot to take a picture of this though. View attachment 53273 Did a Tps and map-sensor calibration and it works magnificent! View attachment 53274 I know many here are very technical and have probably already figured this out but this could be done by anyone really that can crimp some connectors and solder some wires. I was searching for any info on this topic before i did this and could not find any so i hope this could help some people here. Updating there Birds with a more modern Pcv that is also expandable with autotune, Wb2 and some more modern displays than the one available for Pc3. :thumb:

THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR GREAT KNOWLEDGE----the entire internet says what you're doing is impossible, not gonna work....but I've always felt like it's a crock of $hit because "piggy back" means ony the connections and programming changes. I can't say I'm convinced until I succeed on my own though!

 

[beestoys]

Dynojet made a 5 for the 2nd generation FI's. You may have to go across the pond to score one as Dynojet Nevada isn't building them anymore.

 

[WS6_Keith]

Better buy it sooner rather than later if you can find it. No more PCV's...discontinued in May '22.

 

[WS6_Keith]

THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR GREAT KNOWLEDGE----the entire internet says what you're doing is impossible, not gonna work....but I've always felt like it's a crock of $hit because "piggy back" means ony the connections and programming changes. I can't say I'm convinced until I succeed on my own though!

Just FYI, all Power Commanders are NOT the same. There are differences in the programming and in some cases, in the hardware, from model to model. They are not all the same and some may give you heartburn trying to figure out why something may not work as expected when not used on the bike it was designed for.

 

[beestoys]

If you do find a V specifically for the BB it can be adapted into the early FI. Mind you it ain't cheap or plug and play but it's doable. Just be sure it's BB specific.

 

[lovinmycbr1000f]

If you do find a V specifically for the BB it can be adapted into the early FI. Mind you it ain't cheap or plug and play but it's doable. Just be sure it's BB specific.

Question... Have a “Booster Plug” and throttle response is excellent. I’m of mind “If it ain’t broke...” Would PCV be any better?

 

[beestoys]

Can't say for sure. It depends on how the booster operates. If it has a pull down table that works like the 5 it may not be worth it. But I'd suspect just a simple offset table for a specific area.
The 5 would give you full control to change anywhere in the fuel map. Now your issues are 1. is your system 1st gen 99/00. Or 2nd gen 01 and up.
The 5 will only easily plug and play in the 2ndgen's.
You can put in the earlier but it takes work.

 

[lovinmycbr1000f]

Oh sorry missed this Bees!
So, 1st Gen and no pull down table. So not tunable. However performance is GREAT! Compared to stock...