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Ran a wideband for 3 months tweaking the map then when temps dropped noticed that the afr went rich again. Hence the thinking of having a wideband input all the time tweaking it back. The second advantage would be using their dual map switch which would allow me toggle over to a power map.
 

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Bees, not your confusion (you are correct) but the service manuals "after '99" wiring diagram shows what is actually '02 and up injector connections (14 pin connector).

If it is true that the GSXR injectors are the same as Honda ones (someone stated that earlier in this thread) then your solution is actually simpler. Looking at the GSXR 600 04-05 (p/n 20-043) for example, all you need to do is plug the injectors the same way you have it and tap the TPS sensor and your good to go.
 

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My only concern would be the computer language compatibility with using a non Honda application. Ill have to look into it closer. But if it is compatible then that's probably as you say the best route to take.
 

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Man, this is where I am now. I will NEVER again trust a shop to dyno-tune my bike - I should F2#$king sue the shop that ripped me off - at least for the cost. Plus, I like to change things up which would render the tune useless.

I'm also tired of having shitty gas mileage (120 miles a tank?) and don't want to put everything back to stock for then change one thing at a time. There's a theoretically VERY simple solution for all of this; it's what you guys are talking about in this thread.

At a minimum I want to do what Brian did and see my AFR in real time. My problem with that is let's say I'm on the freeway at 5:00 pm exactly, doing 70 mpg and see my AFR is too rich. Without logging how do I know what my throttle opening is to modify the setting in the PC3?

But far better would be to run the PC 5 with AutoTune. Bees, this whole setup would be easier to wire up than your cruise control, right? I'm shit with wiring so I'd pay you to modify a PC 5 harness once you've figured this out. Thoughts?
 

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Man, this is where I am now. I will NEVER again trust a shop to dyno-tune my bike - I should F2#$king sue the shop that ripped me off - at least for the cost. Plus, I like to change things up which would render the tune useless.

I'm also tired of having shitty gas mileage (120 miles a tank?) and don't want to put everything back to stock for then change one thing at a time. There's a theoretically VERY simple solution for all of this; it's what you guys are talking about in this thread.

At a minimum I want to do what Brian did and see my AFR in real time. My problem with that is let's say I'm on the freeway at 5:00 pm exactly, doing 70 mpg and see my AFR is too rich. Without logging how do I know what my throttle opening is to modify the setting in the PC3?

But far better would be to run the PC 5 with AutoTune. Bees, this whole setup would be easier to wire up than your cruise control, right? I'm shit with wiring so I'd pay you to modify a PC 5 harness once you've figured this out. Thoughts?
I haven't updated this thread in a while but my PCV is working fine and I'm in the process of installing the autotune module, just need to get that O2 sensor bung welded up.

I don't know what your mods are Dave but if you just have slip on exhaust and an air filter you can use the Two Brothers tune (M113-005, what I'm using now) to see if you run better. I think it's one of the milder ones out there and shouldn't cause major issues. It mostly pulls fuel in small amounts all over so it's not too drastic.
 

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Thanks. Yes, running dual Yosh slip ons and after years of waffling a K&N filter. I think I've tried that map but I guess I can try again.

Looking at the map you're suggesting, what about all this added fuel right at cruise speed throttle openings? I don't remember there being a problem there with the stock mapping.

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Well then that's why I want a wideband sensor. How much do I back at off and how do I know... anything? I'm a very scientific guy and I don't like taking guesses or stabs so that's why I want to take a whole new route to all of this.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
 

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Dave, I'm not sure of your experience level here but if you are scientific (whether trained or self taught) you should familiarize yourself with you are trying to do or want to accomplish. You have a couple of options before you go the route of getting the autotune as I see it. Also the autotune is not as "auto" as it sounds.

First, you can get a wideband sensor and meter/data logger and start gathering data on your AFR at RPM vs throttle position. This will give you what you need to do to the fuel curve and settle the "how do I know...". As for the "how much do I back it off", well that is trial & error with many repetitions. This is what all "tune guy's" do, you make a run, analyze the data then tweak.

The second option and I know you're not going to like it... is to find a reputable tuner to take another shot at it. It's no doubt the first guy you went to had no clue but if you do a search I'm sure you can find one within half a day's ride. This will give you a better starting point after which you can then data log your rides and see what's happening.


Most importantly I would suggest first setting a zero map and make sure your bike is running in top shape, you'd be surprised how often people try tuning out basic mechanical issues (spark, vacuum leak, and fuel delivery issues) then only end up totally frustrated. You said you have the slip-ons and yes, no, maybe, a K&N filter as your mods, well if so there is no reason your bike should not run well with a zero map (it won't be top performing but it should run well). If it doesn't maybe there are issues, either mechanical or your PCIII is the problem, these things should be ruled out first before proceeding in order to achieve your goals.
 

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Thanks for taking the time for a thoughtful response. I've had a power commander for years but have run a zero map almost the entire time, for the exact reasons you've already mentioned. So nothing's going to happen there that I don't already know about.

You're right that I don't know all there is to know about how the autotune works but I'm hoping it will prevent me from having to spend the next 6 months of my life dicking around with my motorcycle trying to get slightly better gas mileage or all of probably 5% more horsepower.

Like you stated, I'm at the point of either installing a wideband sensor with data logging or I'm now looking into the Power Commander 5 with Auto-Tune. I forgot the other option is to just remove the Power Commander 3 and forget about it all.

I will never again trust another human being with hundreds of dollars of my money and my car or motorcycle. Especially since I still fantasize about getting a couple different exhaust systems if I ever see them for sale. It just doesn't make sense to pay for a static tune when I'm likely to change out things like that. And I have worked on my own cars and motorcycles for 30 years now. One of the very few times that I paid somebody to do anything, they nuked my transmission by putting gear oil in it instead of transmission fluid. The other time, they totaled my car while test driving it. This last time when I got this dyno tune, the guy modified only a few cells in a tune that he admitted he downloaded from Power Commander's website.

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Interesting from what you said, I too have noticed my mileage drop even while running a zero map, I'm still testing but I'm pretty sure I lost 20-30km per tank. I think it has to do with how the PC's work and there may be no getting around that. You've said you're only getting 120 miles per tank (195km's) but if this is combined twisties/city/highway you are right it's a bit low but not by much.

I would get 280km's on a straight highway cruise and about 240 combined city/highway commute to work. I'm in the 210 range now that I added the PC and switching between zero and two brothers map (start of flashing segment). I just have to determine if it's really a drop or me cracking the throttle more.
 

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Dave,
Totally agree with you on the state of auto and especially motorcycle repair expertise in this country. Auto repair, yes there are good ones out there in every large town, if you can find them. Motorcycles are another matter. There simply aren't enough bikes on the road over here to justify a robust service industry, and the machines that are on the road are merely toys, not tools. I might see 1 bike a day on my 7 mile commute to work and that's when the weather is good. This time of year (too hot) maybe 1 a week.
OK back to your problem with the power commander. My 2000 bird came with a power commander III usb, see pic. Bike has K/N filter and aftermarket pipes. No paperwork or info came with bike regarding tune. She runs great, inside of exhaust tip has very light coating of black residue, enough to blacken fingertip. I get 40mpg, 195-200 miles before fuel light. If there is some way I can share map/ send you map, I will be happy to do it. Unit has 10 pin socket, I don't have the wire for it.
 

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Interesting from what you said, I too have noticed my mileage drop even while running a zero map, I'm still testing but I'm pretty sure I lost 20-30km per tank. I think it has to do with how the PC's work and there may be no getting around that. You've said you're only getting 120 miles per tank (195km's) but if this is combined twisties/city/highway you are right it's a bit low but not by much.

I would get 280km's on a straight highway cruise and about 240 combined city/highway commute to work. I'm in the 210 range now that I added the PC and switching between zero and two brothers map (start of flashing segment). I just have to determine if it's really a drop or me cracking the throttle more.
Don't have time to say too much but holy crap - if it's true that even running a zero map will negatively affect mileage then that's a problem. I suppose it will soon be time to do an A/B test on this. Man, if I go from 120 a tank back to about 165 just from pulling my PC3 I'm going to be pissed.
 

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I haven't visited my map since the last tweaks. But now that the heat is back on I'm back up in the low to teens and needing only about 5 gallons or so to refill. If I run strictly freeway I can easily do 200 to 220. I need to get my dumb dumb light figured out I think it's burned out.
 

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Don't have time to say too much but holy crap - if it's true that even running a zero map will negatively affect mileage then that's a problem. I suppose it will soon be time to do an A/B test on this. Man, if I go from 120 a tank back to about 165 just from pulling my PC3 I'm going to be pissed.
That kind of mileage drop seems too extreme to just be the PCIII (assuming it's functioning properly). I think your quickest test would be to run the zero map for a while and get some data, if you are nowhere near the stock numbers for range then disconnecting the PCIII would be my next step. I've looked around the web and usually when these things fail the bike runs horribly so if that's not happening with you there's got to be something else.

When riding 1-up and highway cruise I used to get to about 280-300km (173-185mi) per tank and 2-up with 3 give's brings me to around 240Km (148mi) at the flashing segment.
 

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Ill average 200 single or double up running local mountain's. Second cobras recomendation on an afr. But you'll want a data logger as well. Seeing is only part of the equation. Knowing exactly where its off comes qith1a data logger of both the pc3 and the afr. You can set the pc3 to show which cell its in activeley. This will let you tune the effected areas a little easier.
 

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WTF? That's crazy good mileage. Okay, a couple things:

1. no progress or comment from the OP on the PCV?
2. I now remember that I got a different version of the PC3 than Power Commander says to. I got (IIRC) the later version, I believe they call it the 2002-03 Euro Model, with the one plug to the injectors. As you may remember, their website chooser for the Bird sucks. They have only Euro models and there's some issue with the years. Basically, I think for my '01 I'm supposed to get the 102 model and I have the 113. I wonder if this is the problem.

Guess I'll just uninstall it for a while - I've already run a zero map and the mileage still sucked.

Brian, any thoughts on messing with the PC5 and AutoTune like you had said earlier in the thread?
 

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Yes i may go down that road in the future. For now I'll run the 3 I have. There is a very reputable tuner still on the east side of the valley. I'll get the name for you in a couple days. Ive heard nothing but good about him.
 

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WTF? That's crazy good mileage. Okay, a couple things:

1. no progress or comment from the OP on the PCV?
2. I now remember that I got a different version of the PC3 than Power Commander says to. I got (IIRC) the later version, I believe they call it the 2002-03 Euro Model, with the one plug to the injectors. As you may remember, their website chooser for the Bird sucks. They have only Euro models and there's some issue with the years. Basically, I think for my '01 I'm supposed to get the 102 model and I have the 113. I wonder if this is the problem.

Guess I'll just uninstall it for a while - I've already run a zero map and the mileage still sucked.

Brian, any thoughts on messing with the PC5 and AutoTune like you had said earlier in the thread?
If you were able to use the 1 plug (14-pin connector) then there will be no difference in using the 102 (individual injector connectors), the fact they both end in 411 means they are the same unit and just connect differently to the bike. Also with the one connector you have it easy so go ahead and disconnect it and see what the bike is doing in stock ECU form. Again, the important thing is to make sure your bike is running properly before you start chasing tunes.

Bee's still waiting to get my O2 bung installed (1 more week) then I'll get this thing rolling, I'll keep you posted.
 
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