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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

While doing some overdue fluids maintenance onn my 15yo 05BB I took the opportunity to look inside the tank from the fuel pump orifice and was shocked to find a moderate crust of RUST hiding on the roof of the tank....... not visible to the eye from the filler cap.... and thankfully not at the flaky stage - time to act!

I bought a KBS 3 stage tank prep & sealer kit and studied the destructions and prepared an area ready to get stuck into the evil rust-crust...... but, even though I had done a Kreem Cote treatment to a Yamaha tank decades ago, I was unsure how well the wash and water based blast preps would work on my BB tank...... so I phoned a mate and invited myself over for lunch, and he offered his expertise with HCL acid. I wonder how many bodies he has disposed of this way ...:LOL:

Brilliant....... the tank looks new again........ so now I can apply the KBS treatment (wash, blast, seal) onto a very well prepared surface with full confidence of an excellent result.

I didn't think to snap the before but the after image is (y)...... 8am already..... time to get cracking on the BB tank!
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
OK, stage 2 done...... KBS Rust Blast leaves a coating of nickel phosphate so I can take my time doing the sealer coat. I don't think their 1st stage Aqua Clean would have removed the rust - it is likely best for removing traces of oil from the surfaces as it is a detergent. For a proper squeaky clean surface nothing beats a 1:1 HCL and water wash....... keeping an eye on it and flushing it out fully when it has done it's job............ being very careful as it will eat anything it contacts.

It literally took only a few minutes of swishing the acid over the ugly bits then, after a flush out, using a lamp poked into the filler neck to add light, I could look to see if I had got it all cleaned.... then I plugged all the holes again and gave it a quick once over all round with some more HCL (lower strength) and another full flow hose flush out with water, hot blow dry (after using a rag to soak up the 1/2 ltr of water that just won't come out of this weirdly shaped tank).

I wonder what the purpose of the 'wings' that sit below the level of the fuel pump pick up? They hold almost 1 litre of fuel that cannot be scavenged by the pump, nor used to keep the pump wet........ maybe they are designed to act as a water/crud trap?...... :unsure:

Anyway, job progressing nicely, I will do the 3rd stage sealer coat this afternoon in the heat of the day and allow the coating the cure for 4-5 days...... by then my new fuel filter will have arrived from Wemoto and I'll be ready to reassemble the tank. Permanent solution to the one weakness of steel fuel tanks (y)
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Stage 3 now done....... phew......... time to sit back and relax as it cures for 4-5 days :).

This job is not for everybody..... I did a tank 20yrs ago but still needed some advice and help from my acid man friend. It's a job that needs to be thought through thoroughly before you even start........ there's the cover plates to be fabricated, the fuel pump and sender float to be removed (the fuel pump needs to be immersed in a bucket of fuel to prevent drying out)...... and the opportunity to replace the 15yo fuel filter - I ordered a new one from Wemoto ($100Au) as it was in stock Aus, and should be here before my tank is ready for fuel.

Also, it pays to rehearse in your minds eye what you will be doing and what rags, Acetone cleaner, lamps, buckets, etc and work space you will need on hand once you get started. The prize for stuffing up is a new paint job.....:eek:..... and there's some good video's on line that show what's involved.

However, it is pretty easy doing it in stages, learning all the rotating techniques that work on this odd shaped fuel tank during the wash stages, so by the time you are committed to the sealer stage you are well practiced...... and there's no need to rush as the sealer does not go off quickly...... so take the time to work methodically ;).

I was encouraged to buy the larger KBS kit as my tank is 24ltr, but I think the smaller kit for 20ltr tanks would work without the need to drain any excess sealer (but I do not know for sure)..... as so much sealer is left over and it is impossible to fully drain the BB tank due it's strange side wings......(thinking back, maybe I just should have poured 2/3rds of the can in instead :rolleyes:), anyway, it became a tad messy, but it's done and I'm very pleased it went so well - thanks heaps to my buddy for the acid cleaning session - that was where I was less than confident (y).

PS I've seen video's where guys use toilet cleaner, but HCL acid is $6Au for a 1/2 litre bottle and that's plenty to do the job...... it's even cheaper if you buy a 1 ltr or 5 ltr bottle........ always add acid to water and never walk away without rinsing thoroughly.
 

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Great write up Dave. I did the same to a rescued z900 tank years ago after I had welded in new bottom panels. Was a big job, was more for the learning but it worked. After welding there were still pinholes, and the tank sealer worked. Agree, lots of preparing for it..My inner tank clean was done with wet n dry when I had the whole bottom open and could get my fingers in. Will remember the acid though. Easy to obtain?
 

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FWIW I had to de-rust this tank recently (28 litres)
130174

When I got the bike the tank was a horror story inside. Every surface rusty bottom crusty and lots of loose rust.

20 litres of white vinegar (cheap and easily available - buying acid here is becoming really difficult) and a few lengths of chain inserted. Twice daily shaking and removal of the vinegar for filtering over 5 days had the tank clean inside and very surprisingly there were no holes. Treated with a professional treatment to prevent flash rusting and it should be good for another 30 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Will remember the acid though. Easy to obtain?
Bunnings 'Trade Desk' ......... $6Au for the 500cc bottle, not much more for a 1 ltr and I think the 5ltr was $12bucks, so that's the way to buy it if you are doing lots of resto work on metal stuff..... or you want to keep the wife on her toes :ROFLMAO:

(y)
 

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Silly me its just hydrochloric. Old hand with that. Was a swimming pool owner.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Aaaaah, now I can get down and dirty and wash the last 2 years of storage dust from the body panels while they are off the bike...... and give the chassis a spring clean..... amazing what settles even with a full bike cover and an enclosed garage! All will be fresh & clean when I assemble all the bits again :D.

My buddy (the acid man) came over to help me with the brakes which we successfully flushed and bled, using the forum's resource center workshop manual (and my memory of doing it with my bike mechanic cousin) (y). We came up with a good way to lever the secondary master cyl up to flush out the link line (a big screw driver ;)).

That was almost $450Au worth parts/fluids for this overhaul (oil & filter $80, brake & clutch fluid $17, coolant & rad cap $99, fuel tank rust prep & sealer tmt $90 + fuel pump filter $100 & "packing" gasket $17 + sender 'o' ring $12) ....... + $15 for HCL acid and acetone cleaner. But it was just in time.... another year and it may have needed striping down and rebuilding calipers etc so I'm happy it's done now - I hadn't ridden it for almost 2 yrs but time still degrades the fluids..... normally I'd do the fluids much more regularly......

I did the work myself (with help for the brakes), although a pro workshop would be better equipped to do the work more efficiently...... and fortunately I learned heaps helping my cousin the bike mechanic over many years ;) so I am skilled enough to attempt this sort of work on my BB.

Funny thing...... after my acid man buddy and I had done the BB brakes, we gave his 39yo GPz1100B1 brakes a flush and bleed with my surplus Motul Dot 3 & 4 fluid....... it took only minutes compared to the hour or two on the DCBS system....... :LOL:......

(y) The inside of the fuel tank looks great and the sealer coat will be fully cured today so I should have BB back on the road soon.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Bloody ironic.... :rolleyes:...... after all that work (even though I enjoy that sort of stuff) I found I still can't get my left leg to retract up onto the footpeg.......... BUGGER!

It's coming up 5 months since I had my hip replaced, and though it was done well and healed super well, I never thought I'd not be able to squeeze back into the BB crouch......... shitbuggerbumpisscockfart........ so I'm like the guy that's all dressed up on a Friday night with nowhere to go........ :(

I placed a 4sale post on the forum to gauge demand for preloved well maintained BB's, and today I dropped by my KTM/Ducati/Suzuki dealership to see if they want a nice used BB on their lot ........ they might be interested...... so I'll give them a look at it next week and they can do the road worthiness check. If they offer to buy it outright I just might take the money and avoid the hassle of selling privately. I bumped into my cousin the bike mechanic while he was on a break...... (y) - he knows this bike very very well........

Sad day....... I never considered being Blackbirdless, but age (and several operations) have battered this rider. Fortunately, I can still climb up onto my giant lounge room sized 1290 Super Duke GT :D so what's left of me can still ride .......... this BB demands an undamaged rider and it has earned that right in my view :cool:.

(y)
 

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Mate know the feeling with a hip that binds up,nerve damage and dropfoot. Im giving it another year but may end up in same boat. Interested about the 1290 sdgt. Comfortable? Ergonomics good? Im a sparrows fart younger than you.
 

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I'm lucky then, I had to have my left hip replaced a few years ago and I was 'Bird fit' within 4 months. My supercharged Bird (far more extreme riding position) is more than acceptable. A bit of nerve damage makes me stand on the pegs occasionally (usually after I have put a foot down at junctions) and whilst this looks normal on my Dr Big it must look rather strange on Daily Bird or Duck.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Mate know the feeling with a hip that binds up,nerve damage and dropfoot. Im giving it another year but may end up in same boat. Interested about the 1290 sdgt. Comfortable? Ergonomics good? Im a sparrows fart younger than you.
Cheers mate....... SDGT is great! Seat's a bit hard compared to the BB but I use a sheepskin and it's fine on trips (my kevlar reinforced jeans are more of a concrete pad than the KTM's seat).

The power of the SD is explosively awesome, the handling is superb as are the brakes........ but......... I just squeezed onto my BB this morning to prove my handywork was 100% and get some better pics........ and I rode home thinking the BB was a better bike than the SDGT......... that is, until I get the 30k km major service done and back on the KTM around the 20th of this month - the covid year has turned into a boom year for the KTM dealership and I have had to wait 4 wks for my service slot as they are so busy selling new and used bikes........ :eek:

The KTM is big and roomy with lots of leg room and only a slight lean forward ride stance so it really is a very good BB replacement - and it also can do 400+ kms.......... but I was equally thrilled with how nice this mornings ride was on my BB......(y)

That'sme beside my Kato near Gin Gin in late Sept on a 2000km 4 night jaunt around central Qld...... and get this....... the Ducati rider is 82yo and still sharp (y)(y)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm lucky then, I had to have my left hip replaced a few years ago and I was 'Bird fit' within 4 months. My supercharged Bird (far more extreme riding position) is more than acceptable. A bit of nerve damage makes me stand on the pegs occasionally (usually after I have put a foot down at junctions) and whilst this looks normal on my Dr Big it must look rather strange on Daily Bird or Duck.
:ROFLMAO:....... I nearly failed within 30mtrs of my driveway this morning...... couldn't get my leg over, errrr, up..... and had to stop so I could stand on my right leg just to put my left foot into place on the peg......... :LOL:...... but I got to ride it down to the boat harbour for some nicer pics for my advert on the forum.

I'm thinking there may still be some improvement to come for my hip flexibility (i'm only at 4.5 months since the op) but the added drama I had forgotten about (as I've been charging around the country on my 1290SDGT without a care in the world) is the reach to the bars....... that caused me to think chest discomfort and the words of my GP "ok to ride the sit up style Kato, but the BB might be a bit too much of a sporty stretch for ewe sonny".......).

We shall see........ If I try my Helibars again it might settle the issue in favour of the 'retain' case :love:.
 

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Cheers mate....... SDGT is great! Seat's a bit hard compared to the BB but I use a sheepskin and it's fine on trips (my kevlar reinforced jeans are more of a concrete pad than the KTM's seat).

The power of the SD is explosively awesome, the handling is superb as are the brakes........ but......... I just squeezed onto my BB this morning to prove my handywork was 100% and get some better pics........ and I rode home thinking the BB was a better bike than the SDGT......... that is, until I get the 30k km major service done and back on the KTM around the 20th of this month - the covid year has turned into a boom year for the KTM dealership and I have had to wait 4 wks for my service slot as they are so busy selling new and used bikes........ :eek:

The KTM is big and roomy with lots of leg room and only a slight lean forward ride stance so it really is a very good BB replacement - and it also can do 400+ kms.......... but I was equally thrilled with how nice this mornings ride was on my BB......(y)

That'sme beside my Kato near Gin Gin in late Sept on a 2000km 4 night jaunt around central Qld...... and get this....... the Ducati rider is 82yo and still sharp (y)(y)
How about the bending of knee on the KTM? Is it as bent as on your BB? That's what gets me, the pegs being high and a bit back. I'm about 185cm, 6'. Even with the peg lowering jaws kit. Apex hi bars have solved the bars height issue me.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
No mate, the KTM is like a lounge chair compared to the racer crouch and knee tuck on the BB (y)
 

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:ROFLMAO:....... I nearly failed within 30mtrs of my driveway this morning...... couldn't get my leg over, errrr, up..... and had to stop so I could stand on my right leg just to put my left foot into place on the peg........
Sounds like me before the OP (I also had bits of broken pelvis floating about) I won't forget a tour of France where my wife had to jump off her bike and put the side stand down for me at every petrol stop and then push me upright so I could get going again. :rolleyes:

I'm thinking there may still be some improvement to come for my hip flexibility (i'm only at 4.5 months since the op)
Quite likely, I was given a booklet with exercises and I did them religiously for months. Whilst progress slowed a couple of times I would say you don't see all the improvements for 6 months and it takes 'work'.
I 'brisk walk' 6km every day (mainly due to a back injury) and this keeps everything moving as it should.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks Duck....... I've been doing the exercises and brisk walking from very early in the recovery, but I should do more like you!....... I try not to favor the repaired side and maybe I'm at a plateau stage and need to get back onto the BB for physiotherapy :D........ last month's week away on my SDGT was good therapy - climbing off and on, loading luggage, lubing the chain etc etc, helped make my chassis move better........ so I think it's time for some BB recovery therapy (y)

I've re-fitted the Helibars and will ride it 25kms for my Tuesday :coffee:club group......... ;).

If that works out as well as I expect, I will be retracting the 'for sale' post - whew, just in time, nearly went through with taking it to the dealership and selling it for peanuts........ (n)

Thanks for the morale boost!
 

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Here's another option always park next to a curb if you can. Use it as a step stoole.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Here's another option always park next to a curb if you can. Use it as a step stoole.
:LOL:..... a good idea Bees....... fortunately I can swing my leg over the BB seat easily (or mount up horse & saddle style like I have to on that tall KTM) but the drama is lifting the left leg up onto the peg as I take off - it just doesn't have the last 2% of flex to land on the peg...... so I stand on my right leg and place the left boot on the peg, then sit down and go....... works ok until I need two feet on the ground..... or if there is one of those nasty surprises like gravel or wet grass where I might need a quick foot to ground to save my dignity o_O and my fairing cowl.....

I have upped the exercise regime and increased the walking distance, like TheDuck...... after I walk the 13yo dog for a km, I go for a 2km fast solo walk, including steeper hills, and have been pushing the leg/hip/knee exercises again in an attempt to gain more flexibility...... might even be able to tie a shoelace or clip my toenails soon......(without straining my lower back :rolleyes:)... (y)

I'll give it a bloody good try as I really enjoyed that 10km local spin early on Sunday morning :D..... if I don't get more movement I'll still be happy as I have no pain and don't need a walking stick, and can still ride the KTM with full control.

PS I'm not so sure about today's intention to ride 25kms to :coffee: with my ageing recalcitrant reprobate riding mates as it is a week day and the traffic is more aggressive....... I shall see how I feel in an hour...... :unsure: jeans & boots, or shorts & sandals....... (ie; bike or car ;) - they are both blue......:LOL:).

(y)
 
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