Honda CBR XX Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello guys,

This is my first post here so far. I was looking for threads about similar problems with "advanced search" but couldn`t find any, so please excuse me if I missed something.

About 4 months ago, I bought myself a 2006 Blackbird with about 48000 kilometers on it. I did not have any problems for about 2000 kilometers, when last week, after riding about 60 kilometers, I made a little stop and switched off the engine. Three minutes later I wanted to fire it up again but it just did not start. The ignition worked fine, the starter turned over the engine with maximum power but I could not hear the fuel pump make any noise like it does when you either switch on the ignition or tap the red switch ( I checked the side stand switch...). After a couple of hours, when everything had cooled down, I tried again and the bird started like nothing ever happened.

Now here is the real problem... Same day, on my way home after about 50 kilometers, the engine stopped while I was on the left lane on the autobahn. I was lucky to get to the far right lane to stop just behind another broken down car. As I expected, it would not start just the same as above. About ten minutes later it did and I flew home.

Has anyone an idea what could be the problem? Feels like the fuelpump does not like it hot...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
Check diode pack in fusebox- this monitors safety circuit for sidestand, could be breaking down. More likely is a tilt switch issue- this is along side relays under seat. It's the half circle bit. It kills engine in the event of an off, bypass it and see if prob solved. These have been known to give problems.
 

·
I are the grammar police
Joined
·
3,362 Posts
Feels like the fuelpump does not like it hot...
Could be onto something there, aave. How much fuel was in the tank at the time? I know it's not directly related, but it used to be a problem on classic Saab 900s (my other automotive vice). Fuel surrounding the pump keeps it nice and cool. When the pump gets old, all's fine until the fuel gets low, and the heat expands a tired electrical connection within the housing... engine dies. Once you stop, it all cools down and it's OK again. For a while.

On Saabs, it occured earlier than normal if owners ran them with low fuel a lot. They wore out quicker.

Just a thought.
 
  • Like
Reactions: exxelent

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,928 Posts
Is the tank breather clear?
Might not be the direct cause of the first issue but could well be related to the second.

Also lift the tank and check the electrical connections - should be clean and fit with a very positive 'click'.

Have a look into the tank (helps to syphon the fuel out first) and see if there is any build up of crud around the pump.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you for your answers so far. I have a little update on the situation which I forgot to mention earlier.

1. When the engine is cold, I switch on the ignition, the FI light is on for about a few seconds and then it switches off again.. thats how it is supposed to be.
But I remember when the bird had its temperature and the engine would not start, the FI light was constantly on (as well as no sound from the fuel pump).
When the engine cut out while driving... unfortunately I was busy getting a safe path across the autobahn instead of having a look at the FI light :( so I am not sure if it was on at that moment.. but I guess it would make sense if it was.

2. Is there actually an emergency cutout if the engine is overheated or anything else could happen to it so it will not "destroy itself"? or would there just be the warning lights on the display, like the red line just below the temperature?
I mean it could be very dangerous for the rider in some situations if the engine just stopped.

3. Another thing that just came into my mind is: When I switch off the engine, but the temperature is still at a level where the fan would help cooling it down, the fan is only on while the ignition is on right? And if the fan is on, it is only useful if the waterpump is circulating the coolant in the engine right? So the pump for the coolant should be electric (not mechanical) for all this to make sense right?

I am sorry for all those questions but I really want to make my bird reliable again.
Thanks in advance!
 

·
I are the grammar police
Joined
·
3,362 Posts
All good questions aave, but I think you might be over-thinking this, if you know what I mean. I'd ignore what the FI light is doing for now.

I don't think that your coolant temparature is the issue (not directly at least). It sounds very much like an inmtermittent electrical connection (inside or outside the fuel pump or maybe someewhere else in the loom) to me - albeit one that may be caused by heat (often caused by heat-driven expansion of a dodgy connection somewhere). But even if it is brought on by heat, the problem would still be the electrical discontinuity itself.

If your engine was overheating badly, you'd probably be aware of that before enything else happened. It would run badly as it started to overheat, it wouldn't be a sudden thing.

On a side note, if your coolant is very low, your temperature guage would read low or even lower than normal, because no coolant would be getting to the sensor to make it go high.

The coolant pump is mechanical, not electrical. Refer to the factory manual here:

http://www.cbrxx.com/honda-cbr-xx-resource-center/3-honda-cbr-1100xx-service-manual-1999-a.html

It's your friend!

If it was mine, I'd set aside a day to get the fairings off and tank up and go through the wiring. If all that's good, my money is still on a (prematurely) failing fuel pump.

Now of course, it may turn out that none of the above is true, but I'd go back to basics first. My own experience from years of messing with vehicles of the 2 and 4-wheeled flavours is that sudden cut-offs are almost always those pesky electical discontinuities.

You can be sure of one thing: it is unlikely to get any better by itself! :D

May.

EDIT: Second Patuleia's question above. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You are probably right.

Coolant level seems to be just fine and the highest temperature I have actually seen was about 108 C or something.

Before I start checking all those cables and connections, there is one thing that just won`t leave me alone... the engine cutting off while driving because some connection is bad or reacting to temperature is one thing...

BUT something actually telling the engine to shut down so it will not be damaged is another thing. Is there such a feature?? Like an emergency cut-off? Wouldn`t it just go on until something breaks which then makes the engine stop, because its ****ed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,309 Posts
I don't have an FI bike so ignore this if stupid, but isn't there a way to get stored ECM error codes to flash the FI light? Maybe there is a stored code that might give a clue here? Over to FI gurus for comment ....
 

·
I are the grammar police
Joined
·
3,362 Posts
Before I start checking all those cables and connections, there is one thing that just won`t leave me alone... the engine cutting off while driving because some connection is bad or reacting to temperature is one thing...

BUT something actually telling the engine to shut down so it will not be damaged is another thing. Is there such a feature?? Like an emergency cut-off? Wouldn`t it just go on until something breaks which then makes the engine stop, because its ****ed?
There's a cut-off function for when the bike tips over, which I suppose may be faulty. But eliminate the easy things first!

If the ECU was capable of doing a global shut down, it's either reacting to a serious problem (or a false alarm of one) or it's gone bad. Can't imagine what circumstances the ECU would be programmed to shut the bike off completely (except for that tip over cut-off) - it's more likely to go into a limp home mode.

First thing would be what Patuleia says. The Bird's ECU does not like to bounce around at all. It's one of the main causes of symptoms such the ones your describing.

EDIT: A couple of minute job to look under the seat. If it's loose you may well have found your problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aave

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
There is one other possibility, it is the pulse generator aka ignition pickup. I really haven't heard about a problem like this with the birds. It does happen on occasions with all of Honda's V4 motors especially the older models. The pickup when hot breaks down and you lose ignition instantly. When it cools it get back in spec and works until it reaches the temp of break down. What ever that may be.

There are metering specs in section 17 "Ignition System" in the manual. Bad thing is you would have to check it when it fails. Not sure how you would do that unless you rode with the side panel off to get to the connector. The only crux would be if with the panel off that side of the case doesn't get as hot and it won't break down. Though that could be one way to troubleshoot it maybe. Ride around with the bottom panels off and see if it still happens.
 

·
I are the grammar police
Joined
·
3,362 Posts
Also, if you simplify your search to something like "ECU", you should find quite a lot of info. May not be the same exact symptoms, but threads about intermittent issues like this pop up quite regularly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So... I did the easy things first: I checked if the ECU was straped correctly and I could not find any flaws. Then something came into my mind that I think I have read here on the forums aswell, that the ECU does not like bumpy roads or rattling about under the seat as the rubberband holding it may not always be in the best condition. I took some foamy film, like plastic sheets with airbubbles in them (not the ones you might think of) and put it under and around the ECU so it has got a nice tight fit now and can not move around anymore. That might not have been the problem at all but you never know when this will make life easier for you someday.

Then I heeded Mayfield07´s advice and checked on this bad boy...
Wire Technology Auto part Electronic device Cable


I found that my symptoms were just the same as if the Engine Stop Sensor is active. Once while driving and once with switched-off (hot) engine (would not start)
I took it out and used a multimeter to check if everything was alright. I then simulated a tip over. It seems to work just fine. As far as I can tell its a mechanical component (like a ball in it that will open/close two contacts when tipped over)

My guess would be that it may react to temperature in some way... maybe I got to get to work on it with a hairdryer or something :D
Or is this a dead end? Did anyone have experiences with this sensor in any way?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Problem solved!

After spending the last few days with the wiring diagram, a voltmeter and a massive amount of patience, I finally found the reason why my bird kept cutting off.
In the end it was a bad connection between some wires going through connectors in the loom. The one around the middle (between tank and seat)

Electronics Technology Electronic device Electronic component Electronic engineering


The pin in the connector supplying the fuel pump was singed and somehow the whole connector was wet with oil (would that do any harm to it?). Maybe finding it would not have been such a pain in the ass, if the problem was always there... but it was not.
Anyhow I bypassed it now by soldering another wire to it outside the connector. After a good testride this afternoon it finnaly works again!

In short: the engine stopped while driving, because the powersupply to the fuel pump was interrupted by a bad connection in one of the bigger connectors.

Nonetheless, I thank all of you for your replies and the will to help me with my problem.:clap:

Greetings, aave

Have a nice evening! :thumb:
 

Attachments

1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top