[fasterspider]

Talking in Kilometers:rotfl::rotfl:

16000 miles is 25600 kilometers

I shouldabettaknownbetta.
Right on.
Personally, as much of a PITA as it is to check the valves on a CBR1100XX, I enjoy it and am looking forward to the next lash check I have to do.
8 of my 16 had to be adjusted when I did my XX engine's first valve check at 38,000 miles. She has 45,400 miles on her now, I am good for a little while longer.

 

[jsfrv6]

Just finished running the valves on the bird. It has 44000 miles on it and has never had the valve cover off. All were within spec with a couple of the exhaust on the high end but still ok. :thumb:

So it's good for another 40 -50k miles... Maybe at 100k I'll take another look....

:clap:....Gotta love these Hondas.....:clap:

 

[TheDuck]

Perhaps not surprisingly I am one person who does check the clearances (but not at every interval :O) and bearing in mind the dire consequences of tight clearances it has to be worth doing.
I have a suspicion that some people (who do home maintenance) are put off due to the possibility of a difficult job ................. so this time I thought I would photograph the steps so anybody can see and decide for themselves. This is 'daily Bird' and she has 56K miles on the clock so I am expecting to have to re-shim since none have been changed since she was built over 10 years ago
So to the preparations

Remove seat, release the tank by removing the two mounting bolts and prop up. Clamp the two pipes that run to the fuel rail (if yours is injection) and disconnect from the fuel rail. Unclip the electrical connections and disconnect the breather pipes. Photo 1 note the pipe clamp.

Remove tank and this is what you see. Photo 2.

Remove the cover from the airbox and you will find a grubby filter. Photo 3. Note you do not need to remove the tank to replace the filter, just lift and prop the tank up. Plugs can be reached by lifting the front of the tank up and supporting at the rear ................. but it is easer to remove the tank, just don't have it full!

Disconnect the coils from the side of the airbox Photo 4.
Remove the air intakes from the throttle bodies and pulling the ram air tubes (inj only) from the airbox base remove the lower half of the airbox.

Before you go any further give everything a good clean if your motor looks anything like mine. Photo 5.

Remove the plug leads - I mark each one with a piece of masking tape with a number on it to make reassembly easier!
Remove the engine breather tube.
Disconnect the throttle cables.
Onto the PAIR system. This can be removed as a unit. Disconnect the electrical connector. Unbolt the covers from the cylinder head cover and remove. You do not need to disconnect all the hoses. Photo 6.
Now swing the coils and plug leads out of the way.
The cover should now be clear to remove after you have removed the 6 bolts. Careful here if the bolts are at all corroded (as mine are), you really don't want to round off the heads since they are 'special bolts' as you will see when you remove them.
Remove the cover and the rubber gasket. Usually you can re-use the gasket a couple of times, I will be replacing mine this time (not cheap) due to age and previous re-use. Photo 7

Thats it, preparation over time to get on with the job ...... to be continued!

EDITED 2018 to reattach photos that were lost during a forum update.

 

[Topher]

Looking forward to the updates Duck!!! This is on my list of things to do (nearly at 80,000km with an unknown history...) right after I get my bike back from the shop where it is being repaired thanks to a van that hit me yesterday.

Anyhow, enough of my sob story, please continue with the good info!!!

 

[Shewie]

Um, hey Duck, the hospital called. It seems they are missing a cupboard full of bandages. You wouldn't happen to know where they went. Would you? :hmm:

 

[TheDuck]

Ok the preparations were carried out in may last post so on to the task.
Remove the right hand fairing panel to expose the timing cover. Give this and the rim around it a good clean before removing it and the O ring that should stay attached to the cover (17mm socket) Photo 1.
Now if you are checking your valves you have almost certainly already changed the CCT, did you keep the key? If you did it will come in useful but if you don’t have one you can easily make one or ‘bodge’ the next step and use a screwdriver.
You need to wind the CCT fully to take up any chain slack before you start turning the crank. Doing this prevents any possibility of the chain jumping on the cam shaft sprockets. Having locked the CCT turn the crank clockwise (14mm socket) until the ‘T’ mark aligns with the notch on the cover. Then check the camshaft pulleys, the marks should be in line with the face of the cylinder head and both pointing outwards. You will need a small mirror to see the mark on the inlet cam sprocket the other mark can be seen by looking under the frame. Photos 2 and 3 (apologies for quality here but I have a reputation to uphold!) If the marks on the sprockets are facing inwards you are 180 degrees out, turn the crank one full turn (align the T mark again) and you are ready to start measuring clearances.

This current position gives you Inlets No’s 1 & 3 and the clearance is 0.16±0.03mm (0.006 ±0.001 in) I like to use cranked feelers, IMHO makes the job much easier Photo 4.

Having checked these two (write down the clearance for records or later calcs) turn the crank clockwise approx 180 deg until the single mark is vertical (not in line with the notch in the cover).
Check exhaust No’s 2 & 4 and the clearance is 0.22±0.03mm (0.009 ±0.001 in)

Turn the crank 180 deg until the T mark is back by the notch and check Inlets 2 & 4.

Turn the crank 180 deg (single mark vertical) and check exhaust 1 & 3.

Well that is the theory, my day didn’t quite go to plan! When I initially turned the crank there was a little resistance then a loud ‘click’ …………….. something had moved! On checking the cam sprocket marks is was obvious that I had not correctly locked the CCT (must have been a little extra slack in there) since the marks did not align correctly with the head faces — the chain had jumped on the exhaust sprocket. No problem, I was expecting to have to re-shim so the cams would be coming out anyway. So before I checked the valves I would have to remove the cams and re-time them in. This is simple, just remove the carriers (undo the bolts gently and in a cross pattern to avoid over stressing the carriers since a couple of valves will be pushing against it) and lift out the cams whilst holding onto the cam chain!.Tie this up to avoid it dropping into the depths of the motor — cable zip ties are really useful for this. It is worth checking the bearings with the cams and covers removed Photo 5 shows the carriers and bearings. In my engine there was some wear but nothing that I wouldn’t expect at +50K miles. The cams were unmarked …….. which is nice.
The motor was still be at TDC so it was a case of putting the chain back onto the sprockets so that the cams would be in the correct position when re-installed. Bolted everything back together and checked the clearances …………………….. they were all in spec with only 1 ‘tight’ and 2 ‘loose’ although still well within acceptable tolerance. Mr Honda I salute you!

So I have no need to re-shim but having had the cams out it would have been an easy job.

To calculate what shim you need, you need to do a simple calc
The new shim = (recorded clearance — spec clearance) + old shim thickness.
To get the old shim out having removed the cam you need to lift the bucket. Being ‘old school’ I find the easiest way to do this is to use a stick with a sucker on the end — anybody who has ground in valves by hand will know what I mean. Usually the shim will be stuck inside the top of the valve retainer if not it will be stuck to the inside of the bucket.
You will need a micrometer to measure the shim accurately although the thickness should be marked on it.
When you have re-shimmed re-do the clearance check, it is easy to make a mistake either putting the wrong shim on the wrong valve or doing the calc wrong! I always write down everything as I go, that way I never have that horrible ‘what did I do’ thought which usually makes you tear everything down to re-check!
Re-assembly is simply a reversal of the dismantling stage, but take your time and clean everything before bolting it back on and inspect for any damage. Run your motor before putting bodywork etc back on, that way you can see if the cover seal is actually sealing — it can be a real pain to install so take your time when you do it!
That’s it, task done.

EDITED 2018 to reattach photos that were lost during a forum update, hope they make sense!

 

[Scrappy]

Um, hey Duck, the hospital called. It seems they are missing a cupboard full of bandages. You wouldn't happen to know where they went. Would you? :hmm:

No mention of the complete stock of Ti staples going missing ??? :evilaugh:

Great valve check guide btw :thumb:

Also a great time to change cam chain guides for those who wish ...

 

[gran1943bikes]

Sorry Duck but if you "wind the CCT fully" you are slackening the cam chain not tightening it ,which is why your cam chain jumped the sprockets.It is necessary to wind the CCT fully prior to removing the camshafts (or the CCT)

 

[TheDuck]

Sorry Duck but if you "wind the CCT fully" you are slackening the cam chain not tightening it ,which is why your cam chain jumped the sprockets.It is necessary to wind the CCT fully prior to removing the camshafts (or the CCT)

Thanks for making that clear my post probably should have given the direction........ but no I was turning it the correct way.

 

[gran1943bikes]

You can only turn the slot in the CCT one way i.e. clockwise.Doing this retracts the end of the plunger which makes the cam chain slack and the engine should not be turned with a slack cam chain otherwise the chain will jump the cam sprockets.It is also advisable to leave the top horizontal cam chain guide in position when rotating the engine. Hope this helps clarify things.

 

[TheDuck]

You can only turn the slot in the CCT one way i.e. clockwise.Doing this retracts the end of the plunger which makes the cam chain slack and the engine should not be turned with a slack cam chain otherwise the chain will jump the cam sprockets.It is also advisable to leave the top horizontal cam chain guide in position when rotating the engine. Hope this helps clarify things.

I 99% agree with your post but disagree that you cannot turn the adjuster anticlockwise. I have always managed to turn the CCT anticlockwise enough to align the slot with the next cutout in the main body before locking it with the 'key'. If you do not wind the adjuster to take up the slack you would have to slacken the chain in order to lock the adjuster if the slot was currently between the 4 slots in the main body ................ hence my original comment.

You need to wind the CCT fully to take up any chain slack before you start turning the crank

Good point about the top slide, although I cannot see a reason to move this unless the cams are coming out, for a normal check there is no need to touch it.

 

[zigmas]

Hi Blackbirders
Doing valves clearance.results are
1-3INTAKE=0.007
2EXHAUST=0.009 4EXHAUST=0.007 ( can it be tighter? )
2-4INTAKE=0.007
1-3EXHAUST=0.009
Looks like everything in spec range eccept 4 exhaust. It shoud be looser not tighter i believe? feel a bit confused.Could be incorect alligment of timing?

 

[TheDuck]

Could be incorect alligment of timing?

are the marks perfectly in line with the top face of the cam carrier when you are taking the measurement? If so and you have double checked the measurement then 0.007" is out of spec (should be 0.009 ±0.001 inch so 0.008 - 0.010) ................... thought you would be metric in Ireland, having worked on aircraft bolting I use either!
Whilst no clearance being out is good I would always prefer to find a 'loose' clearance than a tight one but your clearance is IMHO not far enough out yet to have caused any problems ............... well done for catching it.
You should re-shim this valve since it will only get worse if left untouched.

EDIT on the timing marks I assume the T mark is correctly aligned when the cam sprockets are in line. In reality I doubt if the motor would have been running at all well if the timing was out by a tooth .... and due to the profile of std cams if you are not absolutely spot on with the alignment marks when taking the reading it would be almost the same (look at how round the profile is)

 

[JUSTME]

The valve clearance can be checked at any area on the base circle of the cam.Hope this helps, Paul

 

[VideoMike]

Well, I've been threatening to do another valve clearance check since the last one at 24,000 miles. So I finally did. Here's the results at 61,770 miles. I've got to yank the cams. :crap:

Note that the valve at No. 4 intake valve (right side of bike) is 0.002" under and both No. 1 exhaust valves are 0.002" under as well. All in all, not really that bad considering the mileage. :thumb:

One final note. I didn't find any loose main cap bolts this go around as I did at 24,000 miles! Looks like the blue Loctite did the trick.

 

[Scrappy]

Got mine to do soon ... only reason I know (besides mileage!) is strange noises and backfire's n farts out of the carbs (common with valve issues), she is ridden hard and I'm known for blowing engines ... Just hope she holds out till I get time as can't afford her off the road .....

 

[VideoMike]

You need to wind the CCT fully to take up any chain slack before you start turning the crank. Doing this prevents any possibility of the chain jumping on the cam shaft sprockets. Having locked the CCT turn the crank clockwise (14mm socket) until the ‘T’ mark aligns with the notch on the cover.

Hi Duck,

I'm a bit confused on the Cam Chain Tensioner. Doesn't the chain already have enough tension in it as is to keep it from slipping when the crank is turned clockwise? Did I do any harm by turning the crank clockwise without touching the CCT? Is it simply a matter of luck that the cams are still in their correct positions after rotating the crank CW?

Secondly, when you pulled out the cams, were you able to lift the chain off of the sprockets with the CCT fully released? The first time I checked the clearances at 24K I was able to simply tilt the cam (with the CCT relaxed) to remove the bucket for cylinder no. 1, but, now I have to remove both shafts. The zip tie idea sounds good to me.

Last...
I will soon take photos of my technique of getting the valve cover back into place by removing the air dam ahead of the engine.

Thanks!

-mike-

 

[TheDuck]

Hi Mike
You are right the cct should have enough tension without locking it in position but to me the 'belt and braces' approach is advisable for two reasons.
1. The cct is not the most robust item in the motor as we all know so by manually checking it it fully extended and locked in that position takes 2 seconds and potentially avoids a lot of extra hours spannering.
2. You hit the nail on the head with the word 'clockwise'. I haven't ever worked on a motor that you can stop on the marks every time when hand winding the crank. Now do I rotate the motor 2 full turns clockwise ................. or do I just wind it back a few degrees ..............

Secondly, when you pulled out the cams, were you able to lift the chain off of the sprockets with the CCT fully released?

no it is still a tight fit, tilting is the best solution. Just be careful tilting the exhaust cam too far down the chain tunnel if you haven't removed the pulse generator, I believe they can make contact. I think Honda say remove it, IMHO there is no need (never removed it myself) just as long as you are aware of the issue.
As you will find when tilting two cams you quickly run out of hands so securing the chain safely is IMHO essential - I make certain it is tied at the first opportunity i.e. when I remove the top guide plate - I learnt to do this may years ago when working on Lotus Ford Twin Cam motors, drop the chain and you had to strip the whole motor down in order to retrieve it!
Hope that is of help.

Look forward to seeing your method of replacing the valve cover, I also remove the air dam (and everything else that I can get my hands on ) but to me it is still by far the worst part of the job.

 

[JUSTME]

Duck,out of interest, when the clearance is set at the cold factory spec do you have any idea what the clearances then come in at operating temp? Thanks Paul.

 

[TheDuck]

Duck,out of interest, when the clearance is set at the cold factory spec do you have any idea what the clearances then come in at operating temp? Thanks Paul.

No. I suppose it would be possible to work out (sort of stuff I used to do for work) but that would require exact material properties of the valves, head, cooling routes etc etc to work out the relative expansions.