[PatooNet]

Hi all,
I am Patrice (French version of Patrick).
I am 47, living arround Paris, France.

Just wanted to post a little message to thank you for the help I've got from this forum, during my rebuilt of my 2000 model BB.
She was used in and arround Paris, as luxor wine delivery, then about 44 000 km... I guess since 2005, accidented, worned, abandonned since in an underground parking in Paris.
I bought it in december 2019, just before COVID-19 lock-done.
Many stories / experiences to post now to share with other XX lovers.

Now my BB has a new life giving me a new rider life too.

My motocycles experience :
From mopped, I rebuilt my first "Black-Bird" from a non running ... the Kawasaki GPZ600R.
That was in 1997.
I drove friands 1000 Tomcat, CBR1100XX carb, Ninja-12R... then married, kids etc... untill december 2019, got opportinity to rebuilt a Super Black Bird...
I will try to post all my mechanics problems (many)

I faced during the rebuilt in coming next posts.

Keep in touch, keep safe

 

[beestoys]

Congrats on the find and the build.

 

[cbrpaul]

Will be interesting to hear your story
A bientot!
Paul from Brussels

 

[Bigmc]

One question ? Is she a 100 bhp restricted French bike ?
I know a few years ago quite a few Brits were caught out by the cheapness of super bikes in France only on arrival home did they find out that they were restricted to 100 bhp by French law ( and could not be changed ) although I do believe this has now changed for new bikes ?
I love seeing old things brought back to life looking forward to seeing more pics.

 

[PatooNet]

Hi all,

@Bigmc regarding 100HP limitation in France.
This is correct, French regulation, in the past was a pure frustration for bike owners and headhach for bike manufacturers.
Finally French 100HP limitation is abandonned or maybe not anymore conform yo Europeen Directives / Free "movements" of Goods and Persons within EU.

And yes, first carb has sever power restrictions solutions (camshafts, carb pipes etc...) cost a fortune to switch to full.
Since the 1999 inj, it was light and easy limitation: Change the rubber inlet pipes (without bore restriction), connect a simple wire between grey and white connectors from the ECM.
Mine was switched to full already.

I don't know in which section of the forum I should post/ share each issue during my rebuild.

Keys Words, Issues

• Fuel Pump
• Injectors needles locked
• Run out of battery (new battery, 14Ah Lithium Battery Success experience from AliExpress)... Stator or Rectifier/Regulator issue solving.
• Fail experience cheap R/R from AliExpress
• Success experience switching to MOSFET techno R/R from AliExpress ( less 17 euros), to stay away from Honda unsecured R/R
• Running 4 cylinders then suddendly becomes a 2 cylinders...
• Clutch lever too far for my little figers.
• Clutch slipping (oil tye?, spring out of length, worned discs?, push rod?, slave cylinder?) XX clutch is rock solid!
• Brake Discs out of limit... Original or Alternative aftermarket solution. HH pads.
• Fairing... Honda or cheap altetnative (Spider replacement / adjustement (success experience from Aliexpress), second hand headlamp, full fairing painted from Aliexpress... not plug and play... but successs experience).
• Thread repairs (chassis thread broken after accident) using thread Coils but sometimes, not enough...
• Mirrors swing arm repairs experience.
• LED Buld repacement (headlamp, dashbord, backlight&stop, front and back turn signals... flashing speed issue solved (LED relay Success experience AliExpress).
• AfterMarket short R/L lever replacement (success experience Aliexpress), Clutch electrical switch worned repair trick (to allow engine ignition with engaged speed, clutch pressed, as original).
• Forks oil leak ( I was prepared to change it qnyways as it is 20 years fork oil). Finally full forks dismount experience.
• Smart phone Holder choice: USB & Wireless Charge with secure attachment, no adder to the smartphone back (success AliExpress experience).
• Smell gasoline in the house above the garage... Discovered it was the tank level sensor Oring. Choice of rubber compound, alternative from original 39.5x5mm Oring but no precision regarding the rubber compound. Trick to temporary seal this Oring once dismounted the tank, time to purchase the final Oring.

Now I am so happy, my BB has a new life.
BTW, I am not a nervous guy on the road, looking for record of kilometers made by 1 refill, 309 kms just before reserve LED alert.

 

[beestoys]

Taht is definately a transformation! Excellent job bringing her back to her glory

 

[cbrpaul]

Well done
Would be interested about the " mosfet " rr from aliexpress
My experience with a ebay cheap " mosfet was that it was giving over 16.5 v at the battery effectively cooking it
Also details about the chinese fairing would be interesting
Paul

 

[PatooNet]

- The fuel Pump.
First step: Make sure the engine is in good condition for this rebuild.
I need to start the engine first.
Bought a lithium battery (later subject).
RFID key seems ok, all dashboard lights ok, tried many times, no engine start.

Finally, the first step was check for the fuel injection pump "bzzzzzz" at ignition, I can't hear anything.

Checked the 12v power plug to the pump, all good, means pump is dead.

First attempt failed.

Need to search in ebay for a 1999 =》pump.
Get it in quick from ebay for a second attempt.

The complete second hand pump mounted, the "bzzzz" is now clear and loud at key ignition.
Many seconds on the starter... now engine start.

Second attempt failed.

Analysing why the pump was dead, the tank has 1/3 of gasoline in it since 15 years maybe more but after storage I see only 1/3.
The inner tank surface has many small dots on material, I guess kind of solid material separated from the gasoline.
It is hard material, making the inner surface like a sand coated surface.
Same coating on the pump/filter.
The pump motor is locked, "glued" by the plastifiant.
Finally maybe the pump is not dead but just glued the motor axe, pump axe.
Full dismount it, open the swagged pump body, unlock the mecanism... it runs!

Next time, instead of buying a pump, with a small needle, push the pump fan to check if it is free to turn.

End of this first engine start attempt.

Pump OK, but not engine start.

Next investigation would be the injectors... easy to guess injectors glued too.

Keep in touch

 

[beestoys]

In the fuel pump here's a trick I learned in school. Gallon of wd40 drop pump in close the lid let soak for couple weeks. Pull the pump power it up and 9 times out of 10 it's up and running again.

 

[cbrpaul]

Nice case history pls continue...

 

[PatooNet]

Beestoys, i am not saying I had experience... I just lern alot from my newbie actions.
I made so many error in this rebuild...
This is why I post them section by section

 

[PatooNet]

CbrPaul, I will arrive to the MOSFET very soon.

 

[PatooNet]

In the fuel pump here's a trick I learned in school. Gallon of wd40 drop pump in close the lid let soak for couple weeks. Pull the pump power it up and 9 times out of 10 it's up and running again.

Now I have a Spare pump for my 20 years BB
Stored with filling with wd40, sealed in a bag for future use.

 

[PatooNet]

After the fuel pump changed, after discovering the 15 years gasoline glued the fuel pump, the injectors should be glued too as I fail to start the engine.

rise the fuel tank, dismount the air filter, remove air filter box, accesss to the injectors rail.
Remove the 2x M10 voltswich holds the commun rail, lift all the injectors with the rail.

I can then push carefully on each needle of each injector to unglue them.
I can feel the first release is much harder due to the glue. The injector spring is very light, the gasoline pressure helps to close the needle.

I can even test the full rail and see each injector blowing, by pushing start button.

I then reassembled all, ready for a new engine start attempt after pump and injectors unglued...

Broummm... After 15 years I guess the engine started and ran again!

Sounds smooth... I can now think about invest and go forward in this rebuild as the first condition is checked: the engine is OK and runs.

Next post... Run idle after the restart of the engine, engine stopped alone, battery 0V...
No more juice... Means no charging... Stator or R/R or both?

 

[PatooNet]

No battery charging, no electrical power to keep the engine / ECM running.

Lithium-ion Battery from Aliexpress experience.
Since the beginning I wanted to experience of Lithium-ion battery on a motorcycle.
I have too many problems with lead-acid batteries on cars and on bikes.

So I tried AliExpress again
KP14S, 14Ah (Honda requires 10Ah for XX), 480A CCA for instant ampage. I paid only 75€ Now 92€.

US $111.46 19% OFF|KP14S 12V 14Ah LiFePO4 Engine Start Battery Lithium Motorcycle Battery CCA 480A For ATVs Snowmobile Watercraft YTZ14S GTZ14S|Motorcycle Batteries| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

I love it because it gives me alot of juice to try to start my engine. Take very few time to recharge it. As all knows, Lithium-ion battery keeps the juice for long time (weak point for lead-acid battery).
Many friends told me, with their normal Lead-acid battery, if failed to start engine after 2-3 attempts, the battery is out of juice... Scarry.
I have no such problem with this Lithium-ion battery, plenty of juice, and my BB starts with 1second of starter.
I can just say, go ahead, buy Lithium-ion battery.

Back to my rebuild, no charging.
I did not received my hand book Hays CBR 1100XX repairs yet, had no access to the stator test procedures (Olm check between the 3 alternative coils).
So I bought a second hand Honda stator for my 99-00 XX for fair price.

The R/R, in my mind, it is just diods bridge and tyristors regulator... Chinese diods and tyristors are good too for the job for 19€ brand new. Not space shuttle techno.

US $19.29 42% OFF|8 Pins RECTIFIER TO FIT For CBR 1100 XX 1999 2000 Regulator|Motorcycle Electronics Accessories| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

Well... doesn't worked very well the Chinese R/R. The wire insulator from the R/R started to melt because of the other heat after just 2min... no way I need a original second hand R/R I found in ebay.

Install the Honda R/R, battery charge again.

When my XX repair hand book arrived, there is a check process for the stator, but no check procedure for the R/R.
My original Stator os in the constructor range. My second hand stator too.
I do have a spare stator for my XX.

So bad or no chance for Chinese R/R, Honda R/R is OK but I keep in mid what I read about XX... 2 main concerns: R/R and Dual CBS.
R/R from Honda still not satifying me as I can read many failure of this devoice which drive to battery fail, engine stop or wires burning...

Next post: swap to MOSFET R/R investigations.

 

[PatooNet]

Switch to MOSFET R/R.

This subjet is not in the chronoly of my rebuild.
The MOSFET mod is one of my last mod, my BB running correctly with the second hand Honda R/R. I still kep in mind the Honda R/R fails often, depending on how it die, it could burn the bike wires or burn the battery... I don't want this happen to my BB.

So I search on the way to avoid this problem.
Looks like the Nippone manufacturers use same R/R technologies : Tyristors or MOSFET.
All tyristors bikers (CBR XX) had, have and will have again and again R/R problem due to this unconsistant Tyristor technology.

Explanation of both Tyristors and MOSFET... no I can't, I can only post the link of the tresor I found.

MOSFET Regulator/Rectifiers - The Why & The How - SuperHawk Forum

Knowledge Base - MOSFET Regulator/Rectifiers - The Why & The How - Ok, since there has been a couple of people asking lately, both on the forums and in PM, how to tell what R/R's are MOSFET, I compiled a list... Also, since I'm making a list, why not include my explanation that's currently...

www.superhawkforum.com

The guy who post that is a Saver!
Read with attention to his explanation.

Then come back here, I show you how I made my cheap MOSFET mod.

As this is cheap, I ordered from Aliexpress again, the cheapest model of R/R MOSFET.
The famous Shindingen FH020AA.
Link of the shop I ordered in Aliexpress :

US $20.49 18% OFF|Regulator Rectifier Upgrade Kit Replaces FH012AA For SHINDENGEN MOSFET FH020AA|Motorbike Ingition| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

I want to make a plug and play mod, in case this doesn't work, I can plug back my Honda R/R.
So I cutted the burned Honda Original R/R wires as close as possible from the R/R.
I swaged the recycled wires to the plugs delivered with the MOSFET R/R.
I did not use the Fuse wire, direct plug the dual (+) and (-) to the Honda recucled wires/plugs.
I also moded the second hole to be same hole to hole distant as the Honda... but it is useless thehole mod as only one bold will fit on the XX, the bottom hole has to be fixed/attached with Ryslan or other solution as I need to turn a little the R/R, the big plugs touching the ha.fle bar to rise the bike on the central stand.
Now the pictures.... hum, I have no possibility to attach more picture, the option is desactived on my post...

 

[PatooNet]

MOSFET mod pictures.
Use only the top screw.
The bottom on, attach it the way you can.
There is no heat conduction possible so just focus the attachment for holding to the chassis, no other reason than holding it to the chassis.

The MOSFET works perfectly, regulate correctly and I think will last much longer than the Honda R/R I keep as emergency Spare.
This is a full plug and play mod, nothing modified on the bike or the wires.

If you don't have a burned Honda R/R to recycle the wires as I did, maybe buy cheap Chinese R/R to recycle the wires/plugs.
Otherwise need to cut plug of the triphase to plug in the MOSFET inlet. MOSFET regulated output + & - goes directly to the battery. The Plug from the Honda stay unplugged.

 

[beestoys]

Patoo
I would like make a couple of recommendations. 1st if you flip your R/R another 90 degrees clock wise and point the connectors down. Then you can use 1/4-20 flat head screws to fix the R/R. I then made a T plate adapter out of 20 gauge sheet metal. I then bolted that to the frame.
2nd I would remove that white factory plastic plug that stator wires come in on. They are known to overheat and fail. On the connector for the red green and black sense line. The red and green wires are the factory R/R's connections to put power back into the system and the battery. This connector is also noted to fail. The factory harness is also know to be a charging issue. So we will connect directly to the battery terminals with 10 gauge wires. Put a 30 amp fuse in the red power wire in case you get an overload.

 

[PatooNet]

Patoo
I would like make a couple of recommendations. 1st if you flip your R/R another 90 degrees clock wise and point the connectors down. Then you can use 1/4-20 flat head screws to fix the R/R. I then made a T plate adapter out of 20 gauge sheet metal. I then bolted that to the frame.
2nd I would remove that white factory plastic plug that stator wires come in on. They are known to overheat and fail. On the connector for the red green and black sense line. The red and green wires are the factory R/R's connections to put power back into the system and the battery. This connector is also noted to fail. The factory harness is also know to be a charging issue. So we will connect directly to the battery terminals with 10 gauge wires. Put a 30 amp fuse in the red power wire in case you get an overload.

Beestoys, thanks for this recommandation. I saw this fixture mod in this xx forum shomewhere.
As I experience unconsistant quality in Aliexpress products, I didnt want to final install this solution yet.
I made it reverse plug n play in case the MOSFET I bought is unconsistant.
Some may say, buy the original MOSFET... but then I will miss the oportunity to test a 15€ solution.

My final installation will ne for sure like your description: cut the triphase origine head to feed directly the RR, bypass the factory harness to feed directly the battery.

But again, why Honda stay with Tyristors?!!! Make more burns, and push bike owners to go back and pay spares in Honda shop?
The cost of the Tyristors (Honda original) pays the MOSFET R/R and generate enough margin... but for one time only... I think this is the reason, or prove me something else.

 

[beestoys]

Patoo
At that time MOSFET tech was very new to the motorcycle industries. It's a standard now in most all bikes