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I had a 1997 Blackbird that I bought new and sold when I got married (MISTAKE). Anyway I am actively looking again and am trying to decide if I want a fuel injected model or carbs like I had. I looked up horsepower ratings for both and saw that the HP dropped when they went to fuel injection which surprised me. Then I saw a site that said the power was increased with the fuel injection. Can anyone clear this up for me?
 

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The FI has the ram air ducts which are supposed to pressurize the air box at higher speeds. You won't see the increase on a dyno, you'd have to have a fan in front of the bike that could match air speed to wheel speed. I have both but my carbie has been slightly molested so it's not fair to compare them. Theoreticaly the FI should make more power on the road but about the same or a little less on a dyno.

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I had a '98, now an '06. The FI is a more refined ride. Still plenty of oomph, but in a more civilised way. If that makes any sense. Get an FI. Then you will know what I mean.
 

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"Oldschool" Puget Sound Region
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Never rode a fuel injected Blackbird, but then again I've never rode any CBR other than my '98 1100XX.

Rider magazine did a pretty good article on the '97 in January 1997. They cite the figure given by Honda for the 49 state bikes of 149 hp in stock configuration. Then again if you look back a few months earlier to October 1996 the same magazine wrote a short article that claimed 162 hp. So, even looking at the same magazine for the same model year the figures vary significantly. Who knows?

I know my bird has a few more ponies than a stock '98 by virtue of the custom 4:1 header, but the only thing that really matters to me is hp at the pavement. My bike showed 132 hp to the pavement on the Harley Davidson dealership dyomometer. There is no hype in that figure, and I have the report to prove it. All I can say is I absolutely love my 1998 carbureted bird. I've never wished for more hp as I've always had whatever I've needed.

From my very limited knowledge on the subject the only thing I can see that the FI has on the carbie (in stock form) is that no choke is needed for cold start-ups. I think that would be nice sometimes, but I don't know that I'd want to give up my analog speedo as a trade off for that feature. Then again maybe that's as good of excuse as any for a 2nd bird. :eyebrows:
 

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2001 is when they put in digital dash. I've seen different hp figures. Like in europe/uk they had cat converters in 2002-up and the hp dropped to 152 @ crank. While 97-03 states bikes had 162 claimed at crank. I've read dyno figures of 135-140 rwhp. In 01 I think they redid the fuel map compared to 99-01. I can't say a thing about carbies. FI is really nice. I've been playing with carbs since the begining of time and FI is the lazy way to good hp without a lot of tinkering, I like it and would suggest it.
 

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I recently learned from desert silver that the carbie had different header pairing, sure enough the are. The FI Birds have a 180 deg configuration, po put a FI header on the carbie because he dented the original. I think the 180 design is over scavenging the cylinders because it's a little week in the midrange compared to my FI but again it's not a fair comparison.

I believe that the 99-00 had a different fuel map, I know the regulators were different.

I put the computer from my 00 parts bike on my 01 to see if it was any good, bike ran but it did run differently, wasn't as smooth.

I've also read the carbie can return slightly better fuel economy which makes sense with CV carbs since the slide only opens as much as the engine can use (if they are in perfect working condition)

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I'd love to see what a dyno said about my carbed bike. Prior owner claimed 157 tuned by some fancy tuner but xxx99 on this forum as it turns out knows the original owner, maybe he'll chime in with some input. It's a 97 jetted with a micron 4 to 1.

It doesn't matter really though, just a curiosity. It flat out skunks my ole magna and will be plenty for years to come. I've heard a couple horror stories of people blowing engines so I don't think I'd bother.
 

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I have never been able to find a definitive figure. My understanding is that the Carb version was obviously the starting point, Honda introduced FI in 1999 with the primary purpose of increasing power to combat the busa threat to he fastest bike title but in 2001 they introduced all of the emission control stuff like the O2 sensor, different fuel maps and cat etc which reduced the power output.

Following this reasoning the 99 and 00 FI version has the most power output which I believe is supposed to be 164BHP at the crank.

I have a 00 bird and have a Power Commander and did a dyno run to verify the map in the PC. The result is below it shows 140BHP at the back wheel I have no idea what this translates to at the crank and unfortunately do not have a before PC dyno run so I can't say if the PC did much for the power.
 

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Honda introduced FI in 1999 with the primary purpose of increasing power to combat the busa threat to he fastest bike title but in 2001 they introduced all of the emission control stuff like the O2 sensor, different fuel maps and cat etc which reduced the power output.
actually my 01 doesn't have that crap. apparently the rest of the world and cali got all that. in the rest of this country we got improvements to the FI instead of restrictions.

If you figure a 15% drive train power loss that translates to 161 crank hp not taking into account the little boost the ram would give, maybe 5-6 hp at the wheel.
 

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I have a 2003 model with a digital dash. Before i buy it last december i have never ride any other XX. After that and after the service i have done, i checked some friends's bikes. Two injection with analog dash, one with digital(2002) like mine and on carb. I coyld say that a lot depends in what condition is the bike, oils, filter etc etc. I tend to think that mine was faster than the other one with the digital dash, faster than the other two injections but i think it was about the same with the carb. its dificult when you see every day a digital to understand an analog speedometre. One day for sure we ll put it on the road side by side and see how they go.

My opinion. Everything is nice, injection give power more..."handable", buy whatever dash you like to see with your eyes, dont get in the game of 1-2hp more or less, even two same bbs could have that. I bought digital because i liked seen the dash and i m happy.
 

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St. Joseph Missouri
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I'm not sure how many ponies mine is making, but with the PCIII, twin two bros canisters, removed the PAIR and a good tune, well -



And then I shifted into second -



;)
 

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phastasphuck
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mines just been back on a Dynajet dyno after having some shims done and jets sorting as it was running rich its putting 140 at rear wheel which aint to bad as its got 82000 miles on it...............plan to run for few months then put back on and maybe try a K&N filter see if can tempt a few more out to play
 

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bladebird
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mines a 99 injection about six weeks ago mine ran at 129.9 rwhp it peaked at 9500 rpm
with venom end cans he said i didnt need a power commander the fuel mapping was
almost spot on but i was a bit dissapointed i expected a little more would a pc111 make a difference
in your opinion
 

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I recently learned from desert silver that the carbie had different header pairing, sure enough the are. The FI Birds have a 180 deg configuration, po put a FI header on the carbie because he dented the original. I think the 180 design is over scavenging the cylinders because it's a little week in the midrange compared to my FI but again it's not a fair comparison.

I believe that the 99-00 had a different fuel map, I know the regulators were different.

I put the computer from my 00 parts bike on my 01 to see if it was any good, bike ran but it did run differently, wasn't as smooth.

I've also read the carbie can return slightly better fuel economy which makes sense with CV carbs since the slide only opens as much as the engine can use (if they are in perfect working condition)

Sent from my Windows Phone
The F.I. bird also has a different ignition adv. curve than the carb version. The carb birds adv does a dip by the 5k rpm range which is one of the reasons carbed birds have that flat spot.
 

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I'm not sure how many ponies mine is making, but with the PCIII, twin two bros canisters, removed the PAIR and a good tune, well -



And then I shifted into second -



;)
27,645 feet? What were you flying a real bird and coming in for landing? lol
 

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xxx99
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I'd love to see what a dyno said about my carbed bike. Prior owner claimed 157 tuned by some fancy tuner but xxx99 on this forum as it turns out knows the original owner, maybe he'll chime in with some input. It's a 97 jetted with a micron 4 to 1.

It doesn't matter really though, just a curiosity. It flat out skunks my ole magna and will be plenty for years to come. I've heard a couple horror stories of people blowing engines so I don't think I'd bother.
Ya he always claimed it had 157 rwhp (I doubt it)....I had my first 99 on the dyno once and it had delkevic header with dual d & d cans....its was fast! of course the ram-air helps when on the road....it was 136 rwhp....I would say 135hp is what a bird has at the wheel...

Ok here is the facts

97-98 carbie 164hp @ the crank

99-01 164hp @ the crank of course the FI and ram-air tubes help her get to top speed a bit faster

02- on de-tuned to 152 hp @ the crank (gentleman's agreement) in some countries....I believe the birds that came to the states were all 164hp but this new 99 I have is for sure faster then my 02 was...

That said....A carbie is better to turbo, and delink.....A FI has better linked brakes (revised in 99) and of course the ram-air is always good to have....Carbies run much cooler .....a bird is a bird. just find a clean one with a good maintenance record....cant go wrong either way....
 

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The F.I. bird also has a different ignition adv. curve than the carb version. The carb birds adv does a dip by the 5k rpm range which is one of the reasons carbed birds have that flat spot.
I had that flat spot at 5000 nrpms om my 2002 1100xx , that I did not have on my 2000 1100xx and that stupid flat spot in acceleration and torque or hps is the most frustrating thing , their was none of that on the 2000xx it was warp speed as soon as you would hit the throtle, I just gave a big deposit on a 2002 and now just found a 2000, am thinking of letting go the deposit so I will not have to relive that frustration again and go get the 2000.
 
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