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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all,

My caliper is playing about, leaving marks on the old and brand new disc :( So I thought I'd buy a second hand caliper and make sure it's all working before fitting - I ride every day and can't afford too much time off the road.

So just wondering, I've seen plenty of pre 2005 calipers on fleabay, but no 2006 / 2007 ones. Can the older one fit OK? I would refer to a part nos sheet, but I don't have one! :(

Cheers and look forward to any comments!

Chris :thumb:
 

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The 1997 to 2000 model years show a part # of :

43150-MAT-016 CALIPER SUB-ASSY.

For 2001 to 2003 they show a part # of:

43150-MCC-006 CALIPER SUB-ASSY.

These are the only numbers showing for the North American model years that the XX was available...I do not have a Euro parts site to tap into.

At a guess, and only a guess, I'd think anything that was 2001 or later would be a good fit.

I'll also say this. Anything you find on E-bay and similar sites will be of unknown history to you. You might be as far ahead to by the factory seal kit and simply clean, repair, rebuild your brake caliper, which should be the cheaper way to go also I'd think. You might be into a rebuild on the "new to you" caliper anyway. Unless your plan is to re-build the "new to you caliper" and then simply do a quick swap out at your leisure?

One more comment: Are you sure its just the caliper that is at issue? Is the caliper dragging? Could it be a Secondary MC issue of some sort? Can you pin point the actual cause?

T.
 

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Tigre, I have a caliper that is not releasing on my old 84 wing. What do you mean by dragging. Just a little pressure on the rotor?
I sent it to the dealer and paid good money. Problem came back. Paid to rebuild calipers but then it sat for 2 years. Going to tear down the whole system. Have new brake lines already.

Chris, Caliper rebuild kits aren't that expensive. Would recommend having a Mity Vac pump at your side to bleed. Also once clean fluid is coming out I have seen people route the hose back to the reservoir if pumping out with the brake lever.
 
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Tigre, I have a caliper that is not releasing on my old 84 wing. What do you mean by dragging. Just a little pressure on the rotor?
I sent it to the dealer and paid good money. Problem came back. Paid to rebuild calipers but then it sat for 2 years. Going to tear down the whole system. Have new brake lines already.

Chris, Caliper rebuild kits aren't that expensive. Would recommend having a Mity Vac pump at your side to bleed. Also once clean fluid is coming out I have seen people route the hose back to the reservoir if pumping out with the brake lever.
XXGuy,
In my experience I've seen a couple different reason for a dragging caliper.

Dragging Caliper= When the brake pads rub on the brake disc to such a degree that heat builds up to the point that the caliper brake pressure goes up (heat of expanding brake fluid) which in turn increases the brake pad pressure against the brake disc/rotor. The brake pads do just touch the brake disc/rotor when not in use...but only to a very slight degree. The wheel should spin free with maybe a slight "singing" noise coming from the pads/disc interface.

Example #1) This one has been repeated by me more than once, and comes from the "I would have never thought that possible!" file. A rear brake caliper re-build because it dragged the rotor once the pedal had been pressed just one time during the bikes normal operation. Because the brakes were not a XX linked system, I simply did not use the rear brake, problem solved for the short time. Fast forward to the bikes re-birth. Re-built the calipers during the rebirth and installed HEL braided lines. System normal again. But I still wondered "why did that brake drag?". I used a length of Weed Wacker nylon line (.065 size I think?) and ran it into the old rear brake line from banjo fitting to banjo fitting. Wow!...the crap that came out of that line was unbelievable. I suspect that the particulate material in the brake line acted as a "check valve" and would not let brake fluid return to the MC to release the brake pressure. This is why periodic brake system flushes is a good idea.

Example #2) XX related: Wanted to change out the worn brake pads on my 98 XX for the second time in my ownership, after having installed new Dymag wheels and new brake disc/rotors all round. Pushed the caliper pistons back into there bores after cleaning the piston sides as best I could (not well enough I expect). On the test ride the brakes (all the brakes) dragged within a half of a block after leaving the driveway of house. Rotors to the point of "so hot you can't touch them, hot". Why is this? Solution: re-install the old (but still good) brake pads to the calipers and go riding. That was May/June. In August I rebuilt all the calipers, top to bottom, paying close attention to get the pistons exterior surfaces (that which contacts the caliper rubber piston seals) clean and smooth. Put back together and everything is perfect again. Key here is: The rubber seals help pull the piston back into the caliper bores. If the pistons or the caliper bore seal lands (seal lands= the groove where the rubber seals live in the caliper bores) are dirty or the grooves had particulate in them (a.k.a mung) the seals can not rock back and forth to retract the pistons, you end up with drag on the brakes. Over heating follows which increase brake pressure yet again.

Example #3) Fluid return port in the MC plugged. This is a classic. There are two ports in the bottom of MC systems. One supplies fluid to the MC piston to bring the brake pressure on. It's the larger port. The second port, the return port (sometimes covered with a metal tab of thin metal make up) is the much smaller and allows brake system pressure and fluid to return to the MC. If the small one plugs off with particulate of any sort there will be no pressure relief for the brake line.

Link to photo shoot of brake caliper re-building process: http://www.cbrxx.com/suspension-tir...e-lines-caliper-service-stuff.html#post362920

HTH.

T.
 

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Thanks Tigre
Knew some of that. New braided lines and rebuilt calipers and sat for 2 yrs. Then the Honda Shop cleaned MC and something went down to the line and plugged line. They then charged me for a new braided line and blamed the manufacturer for screwing up the line. Now just as you described after a mile or two a caliper is binding. I am done with that Shop and will dig into it as some of my other projects have been completed.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
2016-09-04 19.43.32.jpg Hi XXGuy & TigreST


Really REALLY appreciate all your comments, and for the research you've done for me (so kind!).


I've plumbed for a brake caliper on ebay, the seller seems pretty good. I've anticapated the need for a strip down so I've got all the bits as well.


So far though, I'm guessing the plunger (sorry, long time since I've talked bikes, might mean secondary master cylinder) which controls the horizontal position of the caliper, is seized in some way. Here are the marks on the disc....at first I thought the hub was bent, because the bike came back from a mechanic friend, with a slightly bent rim :-( Not swapping favours with him anymore! I also thought that the bolts had a problem, as the marks splay out from them - a brand new disc showed a repeated issue (new disc shown in pic).


You're totally right Guy, caliper rebuild kits aren't too expensive and I've bought one already, in preparation!


Perhaps the picture will make you go "ahhhh, such and such is your problem" :)


TigreST, funny this, it's not binding continously, but only on these parts shown in the picture.


That Example was was fascinating, I'm hope that won't happen to me though, as I use the bike every day, and have done for about 3 years or so.


My god mate, you've provided some excellent information, thank you so much, I've read all the examples and have made a note of the photo shoot re-build process for when the time comes.


Cheers so much!
 

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Chris,
Your fellow countryman The Duck mentions time without number about the need to clean and lube many of the parts on the XX which the weather in England can effect. Key among those preventive maintenance check points is the brake caliper pins that allow the calipers to float side to side for disc tracking. Without a doubt (looking at your picture) this may be a piece of your trouble. You might also check the run-out on the disc and wheel assembly (seeing as you mention you mate bent your wheel) to ensure that the wheel/disc is true and not warped.

T.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Tigre,

Thanks again mate, he's quite right, British weather is horrible on bikes, but I do clean her quite regularly during the worst of it. The brake caliper pin must be the issue (that's what I meant by plunger before, haha!). I'll take a look today or tomorrow to see how it is - I should be able to do that without stripping, hopefully. I'll do that, and then move into any warping problems...fingers crossed!

That guy also sheared a crash mushroom into the frame, after he'd taken the fairing off. Lovely :-(
 

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Dang Kris that looks nasty. Is that rust patina or discoloration due to high heat?
I would be furious about a bent rim but hard to prove that he did it if he isn't forth coming.
Good luck. I will let you know how it goes. Thinking about buying a used lift before I tear into it...I know where one is for $600. I know they bought it used so I will try to work it down.
 

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Grim isn't it, same pattern on old and new disc - it's high heat, I reckon Tigra is right so I'm going to partial strip as soon as the spare caliper comes (only £40...so we'll see!).

It does piss me off about the bent rim, but no way of proving it was him. All I know is if I hit something that hard (and not with the front wheel too?!?) I would have felt it, and possibly could have had me off! I'm done with him now, it's really not worth it and I'm going to go back to doing my own maintenance.

I would love a lift, but don't have a garage at the moment - soon as I get one, my own BIKE WORKSHOP, WOO HOO!! :smilebig: I think your local one for $600 might cost a little too much in postage to the UK, but thanks anyway! :thumb:
 

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This is disturbing.

It looks that your rotor has a heat signature consistent with each securing bolt. Is that correct, and does the bluing exist on the left side of the rotor as well?

I don't see a situation where a bent rim would cause this pattern. The only thing I can come up with is severely overtightened securing bolts. I hope the duck weighs in on this. I have more curiousity than brains.
 

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Mucho postage...hence why it will stay in my garage. My little garage is crowded but I figure I can park a bike on top of it!
 

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This is disturbing.

It looks that your rotor has a heat signature consistent with each securing bolt. Is that correct, and does the bluing exist on the left side of the rotor as well?

I don't see a situation where a bent rim would cause this pattern. The only thing I can come up with is severely overtightened securing bolts. I hope the duck weighs in on this. I have more curiousity than brains.
Yes, that is an odd heat pattern. :think:

Duck's on holiday for a few days. I'll have to do! Yeah, yeah, I know, not even close. I won't even pretend. :D

But here's one from left field, regarding that heat discolouration - if that's what it is - Chris, have you checked the bearings? Here's why I ask... if the bearings are shot, that may be heat discolouration coming from a seriously overheating hub, where the disks bolt to it, but without the benefit of the hub helping to sink heat out of the disk where they actually connect.

What happens when you spin the wheel with the brakes cool and free of the disks (or better yet, with the pads out)?

Thing is, looking at the way the light is reflected on the surface of the disk where the disclouration is, it doesn't look like there's much wear at all. Looks like the original machining is still there, which suggests that the disk isn't warped at all. Could be a trick of the light, but... never seen that before.

Like I said, a bit left field, but may be worthy a try
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hey iXXion, cheers for looking over this thread, the pattern is indeed on the other side as well. The pattern would make you think it relates to the bolts, when I fitted the bolts, I didn't overtighten them (or at least tried!). Also, the guy who worked on the bike, didn't need to remove the disc for any reason, so that only leads me to think they tightened themselves, which isn't really possible...I would have thought! I'm going to over haul the caliper when I get a moment and I will report back!


XXGUY - yeah, probably best, as much as I'd love one. Had a new tyre fitted today, that's another thing I'd like to do myself! At least you can part a bike on top of it for the time being!


Mayfield, hey mate. It is indeed...hmm! I did spin the wheel with the disc removed, and it seemed quite happy...or as happy as a mechanical component can be! It's very plausible that the bearings are shot, as they haven't been changed since I bought it (3 years / 50k miles ago).


I'll do the caliper overhaul and report back....ah, just a thought, but the bracket which holds the calilper in place, is incredibly close to those bolt heads - and were touching at one point. Perhaps that's causing friction on them and that's where the heat is coming from? In which case, how the hell did they all start coming loose?!? Could it then be a bearing related issue, allowing too much left and right movement?


I like simple problems :hmm:
 

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Yes I've been in France fitting a door before I head into hospital next week!
Door went well considering the opening is far from true and the granite extremely hard.
IMG_1370.JPG

hope the hip and pelvis clean up go as well!



Anyway the discoloration on the disc is probably due to corrosion behind the disc between the steel disc and the alloy wheel .......... had this myself some years ago.
IMG_0861.JPG
Look at the mess behind the disc
IMG_0862.JPG
Should be able to clean it up
IMG_0864.JPG

and I fitted a new brembo disc that is cut-out so that if/when the corrosion returns it will not push the disc out of line again
IMG_0865.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hey Duck,


Cheers for getting back to me, and glad your door installation went well....random! :) Thanks for taking the time to upload the pics, really kind of you and I reckon I've got the same issue. So it's off with the disc again (and fitting my nice shiny new bolts, yey!) and give it a proper clean up. I did give it a reasonable clean, but perhaps not enough...doh!


iXXion - I think mines a bit more aggresive than Duck's, but I'll clean her up and see how it goes...while I'm at it, I'm gonna lube up the caliper a bit, just in case!
 
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