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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
HELLO FELLOW FIGHTER PILOTS!!! (In WWI IF you were lucky enuff to own/drive a motorcycle you were IMMEDIATELY recruited for fighter pilot training! Because like a plane, we use all four limbs to control our bike!!) HOPE YUR ALL DOING WELL IN THESE TRYING TIMES...

This thread was originally a private conversation between myself and Malo... However, we both felt this was important enuff to share! If you plan on getting aspherical mirrors AND you'd like to add turn signals BEHIND the glass there are a few things you need to be aware of for it to work! This thread will also be part of my SECOND 100% ELECTRICAL..." post.

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Hey Malo! So ended up ordering 14 LED turn signals with two wire... Unfortunately, I totally screwed up the holing process on the back side. Simple process so I thought. I had the right idea but wrong technique. I made a cardboard template with round hole where the LED would shine through... I tapped the template to the back tip of the mirror then proceeded to dab each hole with "Easy Off" oven cleaner with a Q-tip to remove a perfect round hole of backing paint AND "silver". THe "Easy Off" removed the white paint but NOT the the "silver"! Enven rotating the Q-tip wouldn't remove the silver. So added another very small dab of oven cleaner directly on "silver" waited 5 seconds and tried removing it with gentle rotating movement with a dry Q-tip. It worked! BUT my cardboard template had expanded due to the addition of extra "Easy Off" and leached beyond the hole creating a hole with tentacles!and leach lines!!! On ALL the holes!! PHRAK!!! 😡🤬😡🤬 So either I remove ALL the paint and "re-mirror" with mirror in a can by Rustoleum OR buy a new mirror! AAAArrrgggg! May I ask how did you make yur holes?

MALO-
1. I applied the pcb assembly to the rear of the mirror. Apllied 12v to the leads and flipped it all over to see if it shone through. It didn't.

2. I tried the same on a spare car wingmirror glass I had to hand. They did shine through. So, firstly the difference was either thickness of backing coating or difference in material used in the backing.

3. I then played with the old broken BB mirtor glass I'd removed from the mirror assemblies. I played with dremel (too harsh and not accurate enough) and acid etching (too aggressive) to practise and got as far as discovering all I needed to do was thin/ get through the backing coating but not the silvering. In fact that was my preference anyway so the mirrors wouldn't have distracting holes in their silvering so you couldn’t tell the leds were there when they're off. Hmmm… liking your Q-tip and oven cleaner idea simply to get down to the silvering. I'd then stop there. Prob you discovered was not to apply too much and to wash it off quickly to prevent spread/ leatching etc.

4. Too aggressive: on the old broken glass used in 3. above I experimented with "re-silvering" to see if I could repair any hole with damaged silvering. I sed a can of the Rustolene. Very poor results prob because of my technique (not enough can shaking, too thick application etc). So I started googling resilvering mirrors chemically and figure it was cheaper to buy new mirror glass if I damaged the current set (I think the price is now down to $20).

5. So post experimenting, I then used the same template approach as you. I used a piece of paper laid over the pcb led side. Rubbed gently to get impression of where the leds are and the sides/ edges of the pcbs.

6. Removed the paper and placed on a flat cutting board. Idea being I would use a craft knife to cut out exact shape of leds. Proved too much phaff so I ended up with a bic biro pen which simply punched a hole in the paper at each led location.

7. Taped the paper to the back of the mirror. I then marked the position of each led on the back of the mirror.

8. I repeated 1. again to check I'd got the marks in the right place i.e. with sufficient room for the pcb not to extend beyond the edge of the mirror. When I applied the 12v I noticed some of the leds were now slightly visible. The action of marking the back with the pen had in some places thinned the relatively soft backing coating enough to allow light through.

9. I repeatedly marked the rear with the bic applying medium pressure and in a cirular motion to widen the area checking periodically I hadn't pressed too hard and made a visible mark on the mirror side. I had in a few places but you really had to look hard to see them.

10. Repeated 1. again to see which leds now shone through and to what extent. I could then widen some markings to make them brighter or apply a touch more pressure to create ones that weren't yet visible.

So I would suggest buying new glass. Save money and time avoiding re-silvering and just use a hardish rounded point to thin the backing. God bless bic!

Hope that helps.

LOVIN-
Phweew! Okay! Thought about seeing holes after silver removal... Good one! So now I will buy another mirror($50!) 🤬 Use the same technique OR hardish round point BUT this time STOP once white backing is gone! Man! The things we learn! Some good! Some bad $$$!! Thanks again man!

OKAY!!! Got it figured out! So... 4 min to 4 min and 30 sec with a small heap of oven cleaner will get ya 90%-95% to silver. A small heap in the hole because anything less will take longer and will dry out before it can fully dissolve the white backing paint! You may end up doing slight touch ups with smigeon of a dab of oven cleaner on yur Q-tip and barely brush it to pick any "pieces" left behind after initial 4 min. with a clean Q-tip. Et voila! And like you said can barely see it. Now gotta go buy another $50 🤬 mirror! :) Learned some stuff along the way.

MALO-
Your welcome as ever bro. I do think my write up included how I'd used a pen to make the holes but i may be wrong… so long ago now.

Glad to have helped though soz not sooner re saving $$$.

I too have now learnt re oven cleaner as an option v bic biro. That may come in handy for my next attempt… to integrate a "heated mirror" symbol for when they are on. I have the led and symbol which I can
a) fit into the outer plastic mirror cowl
b) fit through the glass
c) fit behind the glass to shine through like the indicators

Clearly c) keeps the OEM look (which is my utopia) but the hardest to do. Oven cleaner may be my option to thin the back but not remove or tarnish the silvering.

Care to share any pics of your attempts so I can see the good, the bad and the ugly so to speak?

LOVIN-
Yeah, U had mentioned a pen B4. However, other side would be flared out, so would have to exato it off and the finish product will be moot! JMHI! NO prob re saving $$$. Ultimately my bad for not asking B4 and just going ahead and doing it! Anywho, learned some stuff along the way. As for pics I was going to but got lazy! Lolol I'll post them in a bit.


MALO-
The mirror glass was £17.50 here for the pair. Is your much higher price therefore inc a huge delivery cost to Canada plus duty taxes etc?

LOVIN-
Okay! Wow! £ 17.50 for a pair!!! :mad: Yup... sucker punched with a "bag" of taxes at $50 for just one!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Now for some pics!


The holes on the cardboard template are the original markings B4 I decided to buy 2 LED flashers. So used other side.

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Paper template to make LED holes in cardboard.
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Pinpointing holes for LED lights.
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Cardboard template ready.
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I tried a number of solvents and "Easy Off" oven cleaner was the best. Application and timing are crucial!
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Application and timing gone wrong... ended up having to remove all the white backing and considered buying Rustolium's "mirror in a can!" to re-mirror. But alas! Don't wanna run the risk of mirror finish not matching with the other. i.e. too light, too dark... Soooo, will order a new one.
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Unfortunately don't have a micrometer to measure thickness because I'm sure the white backing is uneven by a couple of microns here and there...
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
So, as I mentioned B4 application and timing are crucial:

APPLICATION
Apply a large dab of oven cleaner into template hole. If you don't put a large dab it will dry out and you'll have to start over again with a partially dissolved backing and will be hard to gage how far you are from the silver.

TIMING
4 MIN to 4 MIN & 30 SECONDS MAX! (Even if the backing may be thicker in that spot)

Once all 14 holes are "filled" with oven cleaner A MINUTE APART i.e. Fill first hole then wait 1 min. after filling. Then fill second hole then repeat process until all 14 are done. REMOVE template. This will give you 1 minute to remove the oven cleaner with clean dry Q-tip EACH TIME one minute at a time one hole at a time. One backing hole took less than 15 seconds to clean. Once all done THEN you can go back with a clean Q-tip with just a HINT of oven cleaner to pick the "pieces" that was left behind by initial 4 min dissolve. NEVER PRESS HARD!!! Light strokes or light rolling of Q-tips between the fingers. Until you see the "silver". IF U PRESS TOO HARD yur Q-tip will come away with silver.
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Perfect backing removed. Light does NOT come through. Top right was 12 minutes! Completely dissolved backing and silvering. Slightly lower and to the left backing removed AND some of the silvering, some light is coming through, just a bit.
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Once LED is in place AND covered with aluminum duct tape, final product will look like this. Can barely make out hole.
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Can't wait to see yours with the leds light.


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My bic biro pen approach wasn't the most even "pin prick" hole array and, as I discussed with Luvin, with hindsight avoid the vertical line in the glass as the leds shine much brighter through that area as per my photo above.

Rgds Mallow1 (aka Malo aka M1)
 

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Next hindsight comment is watch how close to the edge your leds go. Firstly to ensure the pcb doesn't overhang the edge and secondly a quick double check the outer leds aren't too close to the plastic mirror retaining edge once fitted (in my case esp as I intend to use silicon sealant to seal the edges once fitted to provent water ingress killing the silvering or the electrics).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Next hindsight comment is watch how close to the edge your leds go. Firstly to ensure the pcb doesn't overhang the edge and secondly a quick double check the outer leds aren't too close to the plastic mirror retaining edge once fitted (in my case esp as I intend to use silicon sealant to seal the edges once fitted to provent water ingress killing the silvering or the electrics).
Yes! Excellent point about silicone... That would have come later in the build.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As a side note... I used "Easy Off" oven cleaner to remove the backing. However, I'm pretty sure you could also use paint stripper(didn't have any on hand). Obviously you'd need to test it first to see how long it would take to dissolve the backing. If I had to guess... done in under 60 seconds!? Too fast for my bones! So beware! 🧐
 
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