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I've never replaced the head bolts or cam holder bolts, hmmm, probably should.Don't remember that in the manual. Also nowhere in the manual does it mention an amount for cam chain stretch.Please if someone has seen this let me know. I replaced mine last year (64,000 km & several hundred 1/4 mile passes) and it had stretched a leeetle bit. Maybe a couple mm.
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No mention of cam chain stretch that I have ever found. My bike has had an easier (if wetter) time than your bike Al and when I changed the cam chain at +90K miles I couldn't measure the stretch it was so small.
I've never replaced the cam cap bolts on my bike, with a torque of 12Nm stretching them is never going to be an issue. I clean and inspect them at each valve check and have never seen an issue.

The one set of bolts that can/does suffer from stretching are the 'decorative' bolts that hold the cam cover on. If the history of the bike is unknown I would be checking these, the bolts are very soft.
cam cover bolts 002.JPG
Notice the stretch just below the lower collar at the start of the thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Thanks Al, good to know info, thanks for taking the time, appreciated.
The bike as far as I know has had an easy life. It's a 2000 inj and on around 34,000 miles. It was laid up for about 10 years, going by the MOT paper which now gives the mileage of the last few MOT checks the vehicle has had. It's last MOT was Nov '07 and the mileage was 29k (miles)
The bike only has 3 former keepers (2 of which were PO and his son)
PO told me he had known the bike since new and it had never been abused or raced and has been in storage for last few years.
He was restoring it with the intention of riding it again but at 74 years old decided he should sell it.
He had totally stripped and rebuilt it (not sure about engine, but it is all clean and painted with all new gaskets, new clutch, cct etc etc. He also built the 1000RR rear end which i really like.
It APPEARS to be a very tidy bike and looked like a very good deal, esp with the low miles..... The engine seemed very strong, last thing I imagined was the internals to go.
What kind of oil pump is in there? I wonder if the squealing was the pump failing.. Only thing I can think of
 

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To be honest I think you might be right on the money there..
There are new gaskets all round, so maybe p.o went in there and from the rest of the bike, his mechanical knowledge was not amazing..
I only noticed the new sump gasket last night as i was going around with the listening stick.
I think it is the Conrod>piston/gudgeon pin bearing/s by the sound.
Its difficult to tell. But yes, its parked up now. Unfortunately I don't have any covered space to take it apart, which I'd really like to do.
The bikes only on about 36k. It was sat up for a few years then it was refteshed.
The last MOT says 29k in Nov 07
I've ridden it about 400 miles with no problems (although i thought I heard a squeal one time, but its difficult to tell with helmet on/air noise/ loud exhausts and its been making good power.
The knock has literally just happened after I've sorted all the niggles out
Are you sure it has a sump gasket ? - The BB should not have a sump gasket.
If the PO has created a gasket - I wonder what else he has bodged ??
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Tbh Deano I'm not familiar with the Blackbird engine, i saw what i assumed was some gasket material with paint over it down on the bottom sump area..
Contacted P. O and his reply:
hi ,the sump had a very small oil leak ,so did the joint and checked bearings etc for play at the same time while out of the frame.all looked ok and clean inside.obviously checked valve clearances and compression tested out ok and equal changed oil filter.as you know the engine sounded fit when it left here so i dont know why it should be noisy now.dennis
The guy is not a complete moron, but some things he seemed to do by half/not aware. He stripped the bike completely and painted engine&frame. New wheel bearings/swing arm bearings (he said new head bearings but they turned out to be old and a bit rusty) The swing arm to shock link needle bearing was absolutely €¥¢kd and assembled gave nearly an inch of upward movement when you grabbed the swingarm from above, yet he painted over them..
The front brake SMC pivot needle bearings were completely seized and rusted (and painted) also the top pivot sleeve completely seized. He used rubber pipe from rear master cylinder to remote reservoir in tailpiece. Obviously the brake fluid was seeping through the entire pipe like a seive. The rear sprocket had been hammered on (rather than remove some of the powder coating, so that was skewed, as was the rear disk. All the fairing screen bolts have been replaced with nuts and bolts (what a p.i.t.a) His welding is unbelievably sh¡t, like unbelievably sh!t. The fairing wasn't put back together correctly and one of the front air ducts was not even located at the front so only got half the air. The chain was made up out of three parts. The front sprocket was so worn, one side of the teeth were concaved like a cresting wave etc..
Some of these things are quite forgivable (!!?)
Maybe it's just my destiny to get REALLY familiar with the Honda Blackbird...
 

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Tbh Deano I'm not familiar with the Blackbird engine, i saw what i assumed was some gasket material with paint over it down on the bottom sump area..
Contacted P. O and his reply:
hi ,the sump had a very small oil leak ,so did the joint and checked bearings etc for play at the same time while out of the frame.all looked ok and clean inside.obviously checked valve clearances and compression tested out ok and equal changed oil filter.as you know the engine sounded fit when it left here so i dont know why it should be noisy now.dennis
The guy is not a complete moron, but some things he seemed to do by half/not aware. He stripped the bike completely and painted engine&frame. New wheel bearings/swing arm bearings (he said new head bearings but they turned out to be old and a bit rusty) The swing arm to shock link needle bearing was absolutely €¥¢kd and assembled gave nearly an inch of upward movement when you grabbed the swingarm from above, yet he painted over them..
The front brake SMC pivot needle bearings were completely seized and rusted (and painted) also the top pivot sleeve completely seized. He used rubber pipe from rear master cylinder to remote reservoir in tailpiece. Obviously the brake fluid was seeping through the entire pipe like a seive. The rear sprocket had been hammered on (rather than remove some of the powder coating, so that was skewed, as was the rear disk. All the fairing screen bolts have been replaced with nuts and bolts (what a p.i.t.a) His welding is unbelievably sh¡t, like unbelievably sh!t. The fairing wasn't put back together correctly and one of the front air ducts was not even located at the front so only got half the air. The chain was made up out of three parts. The front sprocket was so worn, one side of the teeth were concaved like a cresting wave etc..
Some of these things are quite forgivable (!!?)
Maybe it's just my destiny to get REALLY familiar with the Honda Blackbird...
Wow - you have got / had a chunk of work on your hands.
I would drop off the exhaust - then drop the oil - and then remove the sump.
You may be able to see the issue from underneath.

If the bike is rideable - you could pop across to Ponderosa Café Saturday morning ( 25th ) to meet around 20 of the group ( all riding Blackbirds ) - for another opinion.
There is a ride out setting off at 10.30am - people will be there from around 9.30 for a brew.
Come across by car if bike is not mobile and say hello.
Not sure of exact timing but the ride will get to Barmouth mid afternoon Saturday.
 

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I do feel for you MW, many years ago I bought a GPZ900 from a guy who weaved me a web. The bike looked ok to my untrained eye and I was keen as I'd wanted one for years...should of walked away but I didn't know better and couldn't resist. When I took it to a friend for an appraisal he basically said it was a pile of shite, 'you've bought a shed' was his words. Things like the exhaust collector box held together with PP50, car wheel nuts holding the springs down inside the fork legs, wiring all over the place, oil seeping from head gasket, head bearings shot, cams pitted, inner fairing fixings broke...I could go on. At least you have the know how to put things right, good luck.
 

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When u said while engine was out, he checked the bearings I worry, given your rest of description- by the bodge list he could easily have cocked up a perfectly good engine, especially at what is a run in mileage for bird. Feel for you, most of us have been there at sometime, once you sort her she'll be worth the effort.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Well it was a remote buy.. Although tbh its amazing what a lick of paint and powder coating can do. Even had i seen it in person, i probably would have been "yeah this is pretty tidy" its only when you start removing things... He was fond of using fibreglass n resin to fix things.. Like radiator brackets.. Seat latch mountings.. I also noticed a manifold stud has been sheared off.
Good plan Dean, i was going to take the tank off whip the plugs out and do a pressure test first off. Then yes, will remove pipes (wanted to pull that broken stud out, dont like seeing broken studs!) drop the sump and have a butchers.. Something may well be visable..
As for riding, i really don't think thats an option.. Shame. I'm down the coast just outside Cardigan so bit of a trip to ponderosa, but if I'm free i may just take the silver Triumph :)
And yes Kris i think you're right, it will be worth it in the end!
And yerr i bought a total lemon of a VS750 once.. Looked tidy.. If i just say that the PO thought it was ok to leave the main swing arm bearing spacers out (running on the bolt!!) you can make the rest up lolol
 

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i was able to remove the motor of my '97 by myself using a cherry picker to control it's decent. i busted the side case & oil sump in a crash so i wasn't too concerned about any further damage... years ago but, as i recall, the frame squeezed it rather tightly and i used a mallet and block of wood to tap it free.

found a shop locally that would install the replacement for a couple hundred, so i let 'em...
 

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i was able to remove the motor of my '97 by myself using a cherry picker to control it's decent. i busted the side case & oil sump in a crash so i wasn't too concerned about any further damage... years ago but, as i recall, the frame squeezed it rather tightly and i used a mallet and block of wood to tap it free.

found a shop locally that would install the replacement for a couple hundred, so i let 'em...
Put bike on centre stand & load up top box to lift front off floor.
Remove front wheel.
When ready to remove engine - nick the lads skateboard - place under engine - remove top bolts
loosen two rear bolts
lift head slightly and remove upper rear bolt.
engine can now be rotated on lower rear bolt to rest on skateboard
remove rear lower bolt and wheel engine away on skateboard.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Put bike on centre stand & load up top box to lift front off floor.
Remove front wheel
I removed centrestand as not only was it flapping about, the PO had lowered the bike (using homemade sideplates) and had shortened the centrestand, obviously changing the dynamics completely as it was ALMOST impossible to get on the stand .. The shouldered washers were also rusted in place and painted over (i punched them out, greased them up which made it v slightly easier) so just took it off.
The 1000RR rear end is a bit plasticy to put too much weight on (i usually put a couple of bags of sand on the pillion seat of bikes to get the front up) So not sure if that'll work for me unfortunately :/
 

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I think you should count your blessings that something has gone wrong enough to get the bike off the road. I think doing too many miles on someone else's collection of bodges could end badly.

Possible to get another one and keep this one as a project/parts mule?
 

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Discussion Starter #34
It's really not in that bad shape at all. I've sorted pretty much everything now and apart from the engine issues that have just evolved its pretty much banging ..
I've got all the bits to put it back to standard if I want..
 

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No mention of cam chain stretch that I have ever found. My bike has had an easier (if wetter) time than your bike Al and when I changed the cam chain at +90K miles I couldn't measure the stretch it was so small.
I've never replaced the cam cap bolts on my bike, with a torque of 12Nm stretching them is never going to be an issue. I clean and inspect them at each valve check and have never seen an issue.

The one set of bolts that can/does suffer from stretching are the 'decorative' bolts that hold the cam cover on. If the history of the bike is unknown I would be checking these, the bolts are very soft.
View attachment 115389
Notice the stretch just below the lower collar at the start of the thread.
I have replaced those.
 

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And what's wrong with the kitchen table?:rotfl:
Dishwasher brill 4 degrease 2
You must be single! I tried that in a small way...Once!
 

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Just taken a recording of the engine knock. A little difficult as it only happens under load.
Tell me your thoughts
Don't hear any knocking with my old ears. Sounds like the normal BB rattle to me as in mine.
Does it have the Honda cam chain adjuster or manual after market one? I hear marbles rattling.

STex
 
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