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Hi everyone, in another topic Digito mentioned he switched from an EU to an USA ECU on his 2001 FI Bird and that he could feel 'those 164 vs 152 hp really exist'. I can't blame him, because that misinformation is found everywhere, and Wikipedia doesn't help in this regard either. So I replied with an explanation, but let me also set the record straight here, for google and forum search purposes. I replied the following:

When Honda started selling the carburated Blackbird (in Europe) they rated it at 164 horsepower or 121 kW.
With the introduction of FI in 1999, they again rated the Blackbird at 164 horsepower and 121 kW but this time they added (DIN) behind the 164 horsepower, so 164 hp (DIN).
Then in 2000, a year BEFORE the introduction of the European wide version with catalytic converter, so the SAME SPEC bike as in 1999, they gave two ratings: 164 hp / 121 kW (DIN) and 152 hp / 112 kW (95/1/EC). This is where the 152 hp originates, not because it is European, not because of a cat, just because it is a different metric, like DIN, BHP, STD, SAE etc.
In 2001 they dropped the 164 (DIN) all together and the press info only mentions 152 hp (95/1/EC). From this year onwards all European bikes have a catalytic converter, but Honda claimed that by tweaking some stuff, the hp and torque remained the same between the non-cat FI ('99-'00) and cat FI bikes ('01-'07).

If I'm not mistaking the USA never introduced a Bird with cat, and they might indeed have a different mapping that gives a different sensation during acceleration, but not one with 12 hp extra! Also a 2001 FI-cat Bird might indeed Dyno different than a 2000 FI Bird, BUT THEY BOTH HAVE A CLAIMED 164 AND 152 HP!!!

When I explained the above on a Dutch forum once, someone replied with some general user experiences. The non-cat FI Birds ('99-'00) are supposed to be the most powerful, followed by the carbies ('96-'98) and finally the digidash and catted Birds '(01-'07).

Wikipidia claims the following for 2002, which I don't see mentioned in the 2002 press kit, but anyway:
New EFI mapping to comply with emission standards[SUP][which?][/SUP] and eliminate abrupt throttle response at low speeds.Manufacturer's power and torque figures reduced to 152 hp (113.3 kW) and 87.8 ft-lb (119 Nm)
This seems wrong on many levels, but what I do know is that when I first rode my 2003 FI Bird, it felt less powerful or less torque rich on acceleration than my 1997 Bird. After some time my conclusion was that this indeed had to do with throttle response, the carbie being more on-off in the first degrees of twist, while the FI was more gradual and thus gave more control, but when you twist it wide open, it goes just as fast as the carbie.

It would be interesting to put well-maintained, completely stock Birds (with new chain and tires) on the same dyno from each iteration, but I am willing to believe non-catted Birds are the strongest stock. But if you put a full exhaust system and PC3 on a catted Bird you also end up with up to 160 rwhp, so I've heard. I also know of someone who maintains many many Blackbirds and has owned many as well, and he once rode a 100 hp French version without even noticing the missing horsepower. So while I don't doubt that the bike felt different to Digito after the EU to USA ECU swap, I remain a bit skeptical :)

By the way, the German (G-type) catted version for 2000 did have a lower hp figure, but that was still 160 hp / 118 kW (DIN) and 150 hp / 110 kW (95/1/EC).

Anyone care to chime in on the horsepower debate? No need to mention the Silver ones are the fastest though, we all know that already. :cool:
I had a 2000 1100xx and then a 2002 1100xx , it was day and night difference, the 164hp 2000 would have your eye balls sink at the bottom of your head on take off till ''cut off speed'' the 2002 1100xx was a boring machine compare to the 2000 and I mean realy boring.
 

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The financial side of this deal is none of my business but only you can decide if losing a deposit is a good idea. Also, we don't know anything about the condition of either machine except the mileage and year.
Your comparison of 2 blackbirds, a 2000 and a 2002 doesn't sound right TBH. Are you sure the 2002 wasn't a 100hp restricted French model?
 
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