[Master_Yi]

Hi all

So while I was doing my front fork, and sending away my rear shocks for rebuild, I decided to have a look at my fuel filter while waiting for my parts to arrive.

I'm glad I decided to replace the filter, as it is nasty inside. I found some mud around the fuel pump strainer, and it's pitch black with dust inside the filer.

I went over to Canadian Tire got those GKI GF61M Filter for about $5, and a longer screw which is metric M4 0.7 by 30 mm screw

My question is am I installing the new fuel filter correctly (fuel flow arrow) ?

Second question is, The fuel pump on CBRXX is Denso # 195130 - 4091 looks identical to 2000 Honda Civic 1.6L, which is a Denso 951-0004
Can I just swap it with the civic ones ?
Will it be okay ?

 

[-Tom-]

Second question is, The fuel pump on CBRXX is Denso # 195130 - 4091 looks identical to 2000 Honda Civic 1.6L, which is also a Denso 951-0004
Can I just swap it with the civic ones ?
Will it be okay ?

Would like to know this myself! Just out of curiosity and for future-proof sake. I tend to be of an opinion that those similar parts must work, it just makes no sense whatsoever for Honda to complicate things and make a special version of such common thing...my guess is the flow must be similar and it should work? Hope someone experience with Honda parts bins will chime in

 

[super11xx]

I'm glad I decided to replace the filter, as it is nasty inside. I found some mud around the fuel pump strainer, and it's pitch black with dust inside the filer.

From some noob who never tried this, my question is, if this parts in the picture are inside the petrol tank?
Mi Bird has over 140k KM and I can imagine it would be very happy to have this things also checked (I doubt that it has been done during service anytime).

 

[Master_Yi]

Would like to know this myself! Just out of curiosity and for future-proof sake. I tend to be of an opinion that those similar parts must work, it just makes no sense whatsoever for Honda to complicate things and make a special version of such common thing...my guess is the flow must be similar and it should work? Hope someone experience with Honda parts bins will chime in

I ordered the fuel pump on Ama zon to try it out anyways.
I'll post some pictures to compare with the Civic pump, will let you know if it works !!!

From some noob who never tried this, my question is, if this parts in the picture are inside the petrol tank?
Mi Bird has over 140k KM and I can imagine it would be very happy to have this things also checked (I doubt that it has been done during service anytime).

Yes, that's the filter inside the tank. I think the fuel filter replacement is not in the service book schedule, many people forget about it.

 

[super11xx]

Thank you Master_Yi
The original filter seems to have that curved pipe but the replacement you found does not.
Which year is your BB?
I wonder if that curve serves any purpose that may be missing after changing it. Did you check that?

Browsing the Web, also found that some owners did use this filter from K&N on a Blackbird - K&N PF 1300

 

[super11xx]

I just realised that for the 1998 model there seems to be a different system.
I wonder where would be the petrol filter...
The only thing resembling a filter is the number 3.

 

[-Tom-]

Thinking out loud now - I remember from back in the day when I was into cars, many guys would put the famed Walbro 255 on their modified cars, it was some kind of gold standard of replacement pumps for cars, especially those who were retrofitting the turbo etc. My question for the experts here - would EFI Bird have any issues running with a pump like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Walbro-GSS342-Fuel-Pump/dp/B000EVN7W8

Also another solid option was Bosch 044 - https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-61944-Universal-Inline-Fuel/dp/B003WL73OK

Edit - just found this bit of info - '01-'03 has a fuel pressure of 50 psi. Never saw how the pump assembly looks on the Bird, is it in a specific casing allowing only certain pump shape to fit?

 

[Master_Yi]

I just realised that for the 1998 model there seems to be a different system.
I wonder where would be the petrol filter...
The only thing resembling a filter is the number 3.

Yes, mine original fuel filter has a curve. But the new one I bought is straight.

I did get some extra fuel hose to attach from the pump to the filter, making it a "U" turn

Thinking out loud now - I remember from back in the day when I was into cars, many guys would put the famed Walbro 255 on their modified cars, it was some kind of gold standard of replacement pumps for cars, especially those who were retrofitting the turbo etc. My question for the experts here - would EFI Bird have any issues running with a pump like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Walbro-GSS342-Fuel-Pump/dp/B000EVN7W8

Also another solid option was Bosch 044 - https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-61944-Universal-Inline-Fuel/dp/B003WL73OK

Edit - just found this bit of info - '01-'03 has a fuel pressure of 50 psi. Never saw how the pump assembly looks on the Bird, is it in a specific casing allowing only certain pump shape to fit?

Very interesting, Mine machine is a 99' but I did replace the Fuel pressure regulator to the newer ones, with 50 psi

I don't know if BB would get any benefits to to run the fuel pump like that, isn't fuel pressure regulator managing the flow ?

the civic fuel pump isn't that expensive, should arrive in a week, then I can test it out =)

Also if you know what you're doing, could definitely retrofi/modify the pump

 

[Aussie Dave]

Hmmmmm, mud in the tank? .

While the fuel pump is out, shine a lamp into the tank and inspect the metal for (sssshhh) RUST ......

I recently decided to shout my 05 (at 129k kms and 15yrs) it's first fuel filter while I had the tank off doing plugs, coolant, brake fluids....... I was shocked to see rust building up around the fuel filler cap (could not see it when filling the tank etc).

I bought a new filter from Wemoto which was $100Au (ouch) while I treated the rust with HCL acid and a two stage tank treatment and sealer........ my fuel pump was clean and still making all the right sounds so I left it alone and installed a new rubber gasket once the tank had been sealed.

That black mud must have come from somewhere, so make sure it's not rust as it will clog the new filter and pump again in double quick time.



PS I should cut my old filter open and have a look tooo...... Take care if it is rust related - the breather tube under/around the filler neck needs to be blocked with a match stick so that after the sealer has set, the tank will not form a vacuum as there is no breather vent in the fuel cap.

 

[-Tom-]

Noob question from me, as usual - what would even cause the pump to stop working? I ask these type of inane questions to my mechanic buddy, I guess I'm a sperg fully out of the loop of the car/bike way or work.

All my doubts come from ignorance and from the fact that these things are 20 years old, and I always start my doubt there....how does it still work - after 20 years

 

[Aussie Dave]

Cheers Tom,

Age does not normally kill a fuel pump if it has been kept wet in clean fresh fuel........ mine is fine after 15 going on 16 yrs and almost 130,000kms.

BTW, I asked my local Honda dealer spares people for a price and availability, and they said they didn't have a new pump in stock in Aus, but if they did, it would be $800.00Au for the complete assembly .

Mine was working fine so I was happy to just shout it a new filter, though I should have done more reading and tracked down a K&N equivalent to save a few $ - oh well, it arrived within the 3 days I was busy removing rust and sealing the tank.

One trick that may help with fuel pump life is to squeeze a couple of drops of two stroke oil into each tankfull - it provides some lube to the pump and may help keep rust under control. The best thing to do is use the bike regularly and keep the tank full of fresh clean fuel when not riding it for extended periods.

My tank sneakily started to rust while I was unable to ride for 18 months (heart surgery and unexpected lengthy recovery). Even though I had my BB parked up in my warm dry garage and I was able to run it up to operating temp and work the gears and brakes monthly, rust got a start on the upper regions (out of sight and out of contact with fuel) of the fuel tank. I only discovered it while changing all the fluids in readiness for riding again, thinking about a new filter..... and there it was . No issue for a regularly ridden BB.

If a tank is left to corrode badly, rust flakes off and can cause the filter to block and pump to wear. Water from condensation is bad news too & E10 fuel can affect seals/pumps internals on some older pre E10 models.

So the best way to look after your bike is to get out and ride it .

 

[beestoys]

E10 is also hydroscopic and will pull moisture put of the air. It also reacts with the moisture and will pit/etch metal surfaces.

 

[Aussie Dave]

At last a nice cool summer day, instead of the super hot & humid conditions of the last few days....... finally cut my original fuel filter apart for a 15yr 129k km inspection. Looks ok for it's age but I'd suggest 10yrs 100k kms might be a better time to change them out...... I don't recall seeing anything in my service manual.... maybe the workshop manual sets a use by date?

My strainer swarf (that's the aluminium looking curly stuff that I thought was indicating a problem but is factory installed and appears on the dealer parts list) was clean, no silt in the tank, but the rust I found around the tank filler neck was only in it's early stages so no doubt if I had not treated it and sealed the tank it would have created a build up of a mud like sediment and ultimately caused a fuel blockage / pump wear / failure.

lucky me........

 

[Master_Yi]

Would like to know this myself! Just out of curiosity and for future-proof sake. I tend to be of an opinion that those similar parts must work, it just makes no sense whatsoever for Honda to complicate things and make a special version of such common thing...my guess is the flow must be similar and it should work? Hope someone experience with Honda parts bins will chime in

Parts finally arrived today

Here's a comparison with the OE 2000 Honda Civic 1.6L fuel pump.

It's a Denso, made in Japan, not expensive at all

Looks identical, I'm not sure if the internal is the same.

I also get a new fuel pump strainer, 3 for $15

Took me about 1 hour to put them back into the tank, and it starts right up. Too bad it's winter in Canada I can't really go ride the bike and test it out

However, I'm almost certain that this Civic pump will works just fine. I guess only time will tell.

Any question, just let me know

 

[Master_Yi]

At last a nice cool summer day, instead of the super hot & humid conditions of the last few days....... finally cut my original fuel filter apart for a 15yr 129k km inspection. Looks ok for it's age but I'd suggest 10yrs 100k kms might be a better time to change them out...... I don't recall seeing anything in my service manual.... maybe the workshop manual sets a use by date?

My strainer swarf (that's the aluminium looking curly stuff that I thought was indicating a problem but is factory installed and appears on the dealer parts list) was clean, no silt in the tank, but the rust I found around the tank filler neck was only in it's early stages so no doubt if I had not treated it and sealed the tank it would have created a build up of a mud like sediment and ultimately caused a fuel blockage / pump wear / failure.

lucky me........

You're filter is not too bad, but looks like time to changed it out for sure

I cut open my gf's 1997 Nissan Maxima at 396,000 KM, it got so bad that the car has difficulty to stay on idle.

but as soon as I replace a new fuel filter, and all is good.

That motivates me to investigate the fuel filter on my BB in the first place !

 

[-Tom-]

However, I'm almost certain that this Civic pump will works just fine. I guess only time will tell.

It looks 99,9% identical from the outside, some ridges are a bit different but it's more than likely the same pump and the only differences are probably concerning the mounting points for different cars, Civics Accords or maybe some other CBR's.

I guess only miles will tell if it works properly. I don't think Denso or Honda would go through the trouble of making the internal different, and after all, not many people had access to parts catalogues back in the 2000's, back then a regular civilian couldn't see Honda part schematics, you would just order by your VIN number and that would be it.

Integra or S2000 probably have similar pumps, but the OEM price for those given the exclusivity is perhaps 3x the price of a Civic pump

 

[beestoys]

The real check would be a volume and pressure test. Pump in tank hooked up. Supply line in a container pump cycled for 5 seconds. That number times 12 for GPM. Then a max pressure check compare your numbers to a stock BB and see how they match up

 

[Skaircro]

Always good to have cheaper replacement parts from other compatible sources. Most of these style EFI pumps look similar though. The Hyundai Accent pump looks similar as above once you extract it from its housing.
The difference will likely be in the flow rate and pressure as already mentioned.
I know the BB pump pressure is actually quite high, it's just the FPR which keeps it in check. I fired up the pump once with a pressure gauge connect but forgot I still had the clamp on the return line.... very quickly shot up to about 120psi before I shut the power off.😯