Brake Pad Issue
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Thread: Brake Pad Issue

  1. #1

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    Brake Pad Issue

    Hi all
    I have recently change the front and rear pads and front rotors
    i now have what sounds like a pad slapping into place when i first pull the brake on it goes away after the inital brake application
    I noticed when i had the calipers off that one of the pistons was slower to react when the brake lever was pulled than the other
    the piston furthest from the brake pipe was the slower one
    is this normal or could this be where the pad noise is coming from.
    Thanks Guys

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  3. #2

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    I'll do some thinking on your issue, but while I do I have this comment regarding "slow pistons".

    When you remove he caliper and the pads and then apply brake handle/foot peddle pressure to the system, yes the pistons on the caliper in question will begin to move. The issue with the "slow piston" thing is this (if I have your thinking correct). The seals in the caliper that surround the pistons of course provide a bit of drag on the pistons. The seal which produces the least amount of drag on the piston will most likely be the piston that moves first when brake lever/peddle application is applied. This assumes that you don't have a brake pad in place. I very rare to never apply brake system pressure to the calipers when there is not at least a set of pads in place or some other substitute material (1/4 plywood spacers I've made) to take the place of the brake pads. With this spacer in use it allows me to pump all the caliper pistons almost all the way out of the caliper bores at the same time....all the pistons move together as the plywood mimic's a pad and rotor set up. Follow me? If there is no resistance on the piston which had the least amount of seal drag..it will be the one to move first. If you block this "easy" piston to stop it's travel then the other (next) piston will move as all the system pressure will be brought to bear on that next piston.

    T.
    "Stemmata quid faciunt."

  4. #3

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    Re: Slapping noise: I'd double check that the caliper mounting bolts are correctly seated and tight to the fork tube mounting locations. It is possible that what you are hearing is the sound of the caliper attempting to rotate in the direction of the wheel when the brake comes on..but then slaps/knocks into a loose mounting bolt.

    I lost a left side front caliper bolt once after brake system maintenance or a tire change or some such. I remembered,after the fact, that there was a rattle in the front end when going over bumps unless the brake was on.

    T.
    "Stemmata quid faciunt."

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  6. #4
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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    On the slow moving piston I feel this is 'normal'. When you pump fluid into the caliper the fluid will take the path of least resistance so one piston will always move first. In a perfect world the 'grip' of the seals will be equal and both pistons will move at the same time. But this world, pistons and seals are not perfect. When cleaning caliper pistons I always see one piston move first and this will continue until I stop it's movement. I use a slither of wood and a small clamp. After cleaning there is still one piston that moves first but light finger pressure on the moving piston sees the other one start to move. If it doesn't then more cleaning is needed!

    Not sure about the 'slap' but if it is noticeable then I suspect one piston is not as smooth moving as it should be. If that is ruled out, have you checked the disc bobbins are not worn (sloppy) but are free to rotate?

    FWIW I have fully floating Brembo discs on my supercharged Bird (unlike the std Bird discs) and these 'slap' terribly with first application of the brakes. This of course doesn't bother me since that is their design but if I had that noise from my 'standard' Bird I would be checking the bobbins immediately.
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    Hi Guys thanks for the info
    Both front rotors have been replaced for new ones so i would assume (maybe wrongly) that they are ok
    what this sounds like is as if the pad is free to move then you apply the brake and it slaps into place under the pressure from the piston
    once you have done this it wont happen again till you stop and start again
    when i noticed the slower moving piston i could push the pistons back in with my fingers so i dont think there is any thing wrong with the caliper
    i was wondering if perhaps it was possible to not seat ?? the pads correctly, before i changed the pads and rotors i did not have this
    brakes work ok, the discs i fitted are the wavy type as opposed to the circular rotors i took off as they were down to 4.2mm i have kept them so i could put them back on
    what you think
    sorry to be going on about my bird but im now getting used to her and its a superb machine just a few small problems, just trying to keep her in good shape

  8. #6

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    Hi
    I will check all bolts on the caliper
    it could be something simple
    the impression i gaet is that the pad i sitting free until the brake is applied and the it just slaps into place as if there is no pressure on the pad to start with
    don know if a possible brake bleed and fluid change would help
    thank you

  9. #7

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    On a normal operating system there will be only a extremely small amount of clearance between the pads and the brake rotor disc when the brakes are not in operation. If you jack the front wheel off the surface and spin it with your hand you should normally hear just a slight 'ringing" sort of sound as the pads only "just touch" the brake rotor disc.

    As the Duck relates: If you have loose fitting bobbins on the new brake rotor disc and they afford more movement then the OEM disc system, it is possible you will hear muck more noise (rattling even) then the very quit operation of the OEM units. I have a set of 310mm HRC disc and carriers on and old CB-750,..they rattle like old bones until the brakes are applied,...just part and parcel of the package as built.

    If you do jack the front end up and hand spin it...maybe you could narrow down where the noise is coming from? For sure there is more going on, brake wise, on the left fork tube leg as this one contains the secondary MC and the related linkage and such. Ensure all is correct on this side for sure.

    Shot in the dark thinking: Ensure you have the front wheel with the axle spacers and wheel rotation in the correct direction. Would not be the first time that a wheel got put on backwards and then brake issues show up. As a double check to the correct install direction take notice of the rear wheels tri-spokes direction of curve....the front wheels spokes curve should match the rear wheels spokes curve.

    A few pictures might go a ways in helping us help you.

    T.
    "Stemmata quid faciunt."

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    Hmmm. Another line of thinking: Is it brake noise you hear or maybe steering stem bearing slop?

    T.
    "Stemmata quid faciunt."

  11. #9

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    Check runout on discs? Sounds like a warped disc could be pushing a piston too far back
    The answer is 42

  12. #10

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    The discs dont seem to be warped but the explanation form the Duck and TigreST seems to fit what i am experiencing
    where before i thought it was the pads but it does look like it could be the discs
    I may put the original disc back on to see what happens
    Iam i right in assuming that the bobbins on the disc ( if that is what they are called ) should allow some movement
    again thanks guys ireally thought i had done something wrong when i replaced the pads because it seemed so easy

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    Check also to ve sure the pad clips are in place. They are metal tabs that set between the caliper and the pads. They take up the gap between the pad and caliper and give the pad a solid surface to bear on. If your missing them the pad will make short work of the caliper because its aluminum and destroy it.
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
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  14. #12

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    Hi Beestoys
    Do you mean the metal back that comes with the pads that you clip over the backs of the pads
    or the spring that sits inside the caliper
    cheers

  15. #13
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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey View Post
    Iam i right in assuming that the bobbins on the disc ( if that is what they are called ) should allow some movement
    ...
    Not that you would notice with OE discs or discs that are designed as direct replacements*. There might be a little lateral (across the disc) movement to align the disc but this will be imperceptible and not something you should be able to achieve/see with hand pressure. There should be no rotational movement of the disc outer when the centre is held solid.

    *Fully floating discs are a whole different world.
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense

  16. #14

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    No, he means the little metal clips at the leading edge of the caliper, they’re there for a number of reasons but one of them is to take up a drop of slack and prevent the caliper from wearing. Look at the leading edge of the caliper where the pad lugs orientate, should be shiny ish

  17. #15

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    Re: Brake Pad Issue

    Exploded view of one of the calipers attached. I think Bee's is speaking of item #8?

    T.
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