Help talk me down.
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Thread: Help talk me down.

  1. #1

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    Help talk me down.

    So been off the bike for over a year since I was deployed. Come home and check the bike which is not looking very good since I left before I could give it a good cleaning. Nevertheless, in typical Honda fashion after charging the battery overnight it kicks on like a champ. Gas is old and unfortunately tank is almost full. But no misfires and only issue is a mushy brake feel.

    I know I need to replace pads soon and need a chain and sprockets as well. Order the chain and sprockets and ehen they arrive I head off to a shop about 30 miles away. Get to about 17 mile mark and feel rear brakes go all the way to the bottom. Ruh roh.

    Pull off at nearby convenience store and park to check. My pads are down to nothing. So I start calling AAA and I do not have the motorcycle coverage. Same with my motorcycle insurance policy. I mean why would I pay for towing insurance rider when I have a Honda, right? 😉

    So after hours in the heat trying to figure out what to do, I call to see if the shop has pads in stock. They do. EBC HH too. So my wife picks me up. We get the pads and I try to swap them out in the parking lot with just an allen key and a screw driver.

    Unfortunately, I succeed in only removing whatever is left of the pads and am able to install just the rear pad. The front pad won't go in since both pistons will not retract at the same time fully. But since the pistons are no longer touching the rotor, I limp the bike to the shop 13 miles away so they can replace all pads and install chain and sprockets.

    Get a call from shop stating rear caliper is not a little jammed so they say they have to drain the brake fluid to clean it out. I say go ahead and a couple of hours later they call to tell me its done.

    I pick up the bike. Bill is $600, not including price for the pads I already bought plus the sprocket and chain set I provided. Ouch.

    He tells me rear brake is not very tight and a claims it is because the rear rotor was scored a little bit. He said it will eventually set itself better.

    I set off for 30 mile ride back home. As soon as I get on the bike i notice the rear brake was a bit spongy as he said it would be. So I take at easy on it. About five miles or so into the trip, now I feel no brake again and presume that they may have just not bled the line correctly. I get home at modest pace and when I check to see what is wrong, this is what I see.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  3. #2

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    So of course shop is closed now and I will have to wait till the morning to see what they intend to do. Need your expert opinions. What do you think went wrong? How can this happen? The pads just disintegrated. The bike felt okay but as I have not ridden in a bit, it may have been sluggish. Can't say for sure. I will need a new rear rotor, but is caliper salvageable?

  4. #3

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    WTF?

    T.
    "Stemmata quid faciunt."

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  6. #4

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    That's amazing.

    I suspect the shop is not quite sure what they are doing, and you should make an attempt to collect whatever money you can get back from them. For one thing, a scored rotor will not make your spongy or loose.

    I also suspect that the check valve diaphragm in the secondary master cylinder is clogged, not allowing fluid to return, causing and ending with the situation you photographed. The caliper may be salvagable, but it looks as though you will need at least the rear piston, possibly the front piston as well.

  7. #5

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    Agree with Ixx. Caliper looks ok pads took the brunt of it. So looking at it they only replaced one pad and got it in backwards to boot. They now owe you pads pistons and a rotor. Ohh and I'd be checking sprocket bolts and torque. And no I wouldn't let them fix it.
    GeoffXX likes this.
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

  8. #6

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    WTF?


    T.
    "Stemmata quid faciunt."

  9. #7

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    So it's possible to just change the pistons without changing the whole caliper? i never knew that. Where's the best place to buy oem pistons?

    How can I check the check valve diaphragm?

    If i need to repair this myself, any instructions on proper bleeding with these linked braking systems?

  10. #8

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    Pistons are readily accessible from Honda. Front and rear pistons for the rear caliper are part number 45207-MAJ-G41 used in many current Honda models. Also available aftermarket as they fit current Gold Wings and ST's.

    Hard to tell from pictures but the piston looks canted and it wouldn't surprise me if the bore is scored or damaged, which would mean a caliper body. At that point, cheaper to buy a caliper.

    Check valve....tear the secondary master cylinder apart. Search here (or over there) for instructions. Check valve setup is tiny.

    Bleeding......use the procedure in the manual or search here (or again, over there). There's no shortcuts once you've pulled it apart.

    My guestimate of your problem is considering your scenario..bike sitting for extended period. I'm not next to the bike, and obviously can't be sure, but that's the direction I would pursue if the bike was in my driveway.

  11. #9

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    $600 to bleed brakes, and install rear pads and chain & sprockets? Without the brake bleeding (which on these bikes I honestly do not know what normal time would be) that's a simple job, 1.5 hrs easy+ bleeding brakes WTF indeed. Your pistons and seals need to be replaced, besides the pads and rotor. By someone who knows what they're doing, effing idiot who thought bleeding would be ok.

  12. #10

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    Click the link for info and pictures brake related:


    https://www.cbrxx.com/suspension-tir...tml#post362920


    T.
    "Stemmata quid faciunt."

  13. #11

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    My guess is that if the check valve is obstructed, they couldn't push the pistons back, therefore the idea to drain the brake fluid....they opened the valve and pushed the pistons back. They pushed on the rear brake pedal, the brake worked, all done. Ignorance = bliss. Maybe they checked a manual, found that the brake bleed is 3 hours work and charged for that. It's that and more if it's done the right way.

  14. #12

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    Here was the breakdown:

    1. install spockets and chain $165. This is all i wanted to get done initially. Since i did not have the tools to cut the old chain or installed the new chain, i was going to have the shop do it. 1.5 hours

    2. Then brake issues arise. So two sets of pads at $45.58 each for front, plus 2 bottles of brake fluid at $3.99 each. He charged me $110 to replace front and rear brake pads and another $110 for the bleeding portion. 2 hours.

    3. Oil change since it was there anyway came out to $33.36 in parts and $55 in labor. 1/2 hour

    Then the ridiculous add ons: shop supplies $22 (wtf?), environmental fee $13.20 and of course tax.

  15. #13

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    The way I see it, the part of this that was screwed up was part 2 above. They did install the front brake pads properly which is 2 of the 3 sets so only $36 is the labor portion for rear brake pad. Then the cost of the one set of pads $45.58. I could break down the cost of bleeding but the front brakes do work well and again that would only come out to another $36 worth of labor. So as far as I can tell, they should at least give me back $117.

    I will have to eat the cost of new piston(s), new rear rotor and figuring out how to clear out the clogged diaphragm.
    Last edited by MDRSK; 07-15-2019 at 10:35 PM.

  16. #14

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    Re: Help talk me down.

    Quote Originally Posted by iXXion View Post
    My guestimate of your problem is considering your scenario..bike sitting for extended period. I'm not next to the bike, and obviously can't be sure, but that's the direction I would pursue if the bike was in my driveway.
    Although it sat for a year, it was sitting on centerstand in my garage. Still could have been clogged by sitting, but my guess is that since I let the pads get so low, the fact that pistons were able to extend well past their normal travel that may have caused the check valve to not allow the piston to easily return back to normal state. If I knew then what you guys have shared with me now, i would have been able to diagnose the valve clogging since i was unable to push back both pistons at the same time.

  17. #15
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    Re: Help talk me down.

    Obviously late to this thread and what needs to be said has been said on the fixes.

    2 observations from the photo

    What shop would push that piston back in without cleaning the piston?
    Red rubber grease on the back of the remains of the pad wtf!

    and one general observation
    I replaced the fluid in Daily Bird last week. Took me an hour to remove the old stuff and replace it. Whilst I'm familiar with the procedure once you have the order written down the biggest hassle is walking from the front to the back of the bike to keep the order correct. 2 hours seems excessive especially if you use an autobleer / assistant to pump the lever/pedal.
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense


 
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