Secondary master cylinder is stuck
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Thread: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

  1. #1
    Sleeper
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    Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    Hi all.
    I recently bought a 2000 XX low mileage. The bike was sitting in a dry garage for years. No rust, everything works fine except for two minor things.
    I noticed that the rear brake was not feeling right. When i press the foot lever, the rear wheel feels stuck for only 3 or 4 seconds then seems to release and works fine untill i pump the rear brake again. Pads are not worned out. Brake pedal operates freely in pivot. Brake flush already done the right way.

    I did noticed the the secondary master cylinder is stuck. I disconected it from the pivot and tried to pump it by hand and it didnt move. I even pushed it hard using a wrench but nothing. Opened the rear caliper center bleeder and couldnt move the rod either. Is this normal? Can this be the problem with my rear stuck brake? How do i clean the secondary master cylinder?

    Thanks.

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  3. #2

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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    Welcome Eduardo. No, it is not normal and yes the 2nd master isn't allowing fluid to flow so the rear caliper will stick and if you ride the bike the rear brakes will get hot. From what I have learned on this forum it is a somewhat common problem and if you search some threads, some members have pics of the problem. The master has a valve in it that gets gunked up and a good cleaning or a possible rebuild will remedy your problem. I personally would go through the entire system for piece of mind; brakes are kinda important. Or another option is delink the brake system. Good luck with your new Bird...it is a helluva ride.

  4. #3

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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    Ditto what exxelent said. Strip the entire system, clean, flush and freshen up the entire brake system. There is no half job with CBS. Do it properly the first time, service every two years and it will be sweet for a very long time. No de-link needed. Unless you really want to de-link.

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  6. #4
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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    UPDATE:

    Last week i did a full brake fluid flush using a professional vacuum bleeder and did it as the manual says. Today i took the secondary master cylinder out and striped it. I was amazed by the quantity of brown "MUD" inside the cylinder. The one way valve was completely blocked due to the plastic mesh grill completely full of this mud. Cleaned everything with brake cleaner and put it back together. Now it works smooth and almost no effort.
    Took the calipers appart also. Same story. Full of mud behind the pistons. I`ll post pics later.
    Didnt bleed the system with new brake fluid yet, but i believe my stuck rear brake is a thing of the past.
    Ausblackbird likes this.

  7. #5
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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    TheDuck likes this.

  8. #6

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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    I have the same problem, my cylinder isnt moving either. Additionally i have squeeking sounds from the front when using the rear pedal. Aaaaand i am questioning my wiring; is this correct?

    20170105_210928.jpg
    So i will also strip the secondary master cylinder and clean it. What is the correct lenght of the pushing rod and how is it measuered?

  9. #7

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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    And how has the one was Valve to be reinstalled? Wichtig side up/visible from outside?

  10. #8

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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    Front brake system.jpgRear brake system.jpg

    Here is a diagram for the hydraulic system, Front and Rear master cylinder activation. The secondary master cylinder for the rear brake actually controls the two outer pistons on the rear caliper.

  11. #9
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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    Well done for getting stuck in eduardo, that brown mess is a sure sign that the fluid changes have been neglected badly.

    Kosmodian, the push rod length is set and shouldn't be altered ..... the factory service manual doesn't even give a length but when you pull the secondary apart you shouldn't need to touch the length. On the squeak, when us Brits started putting braided lines on many years ago about 50% of us started getting 'the squeak' we never got to the bottom of the problem but I've been living with it for 80K miles and even though calipers have been pulled, hoses changed secondary stripped etc the squeak is always there ..... my suggestion is ignore it!
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense

  12. #10

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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    Hm...what if i did alter it already?^^ Can someone measure his push rod lenght (xD) for me?

    And what about the one way valve installment direction?

  13. #11

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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    Quote Originally Posted by kosmodian View Post
    Hm...what if i did alter it already?^^ Can someone measure his push rod lenght (xD) for me?

    And what about the one way valve installment direction?
    Hmmm, I did the same thing. I'll follow this thread to find out myself because,,,,,,,,,,,the only measurement I could find that related to the SMC was for a Goldwing and although it was different set up, it got me thinking about how it works and what it does. This is what I did but, YOU MUST find out yourself what is correct!!! I made sure the assembly rotated freely and full stroke was obtained (before I filled the system). I adjusted the linkage so that the inlet port was clear and the brake lines weren't being pulled too much by the weight of the caliper, i.e. I didn't want the caliper dropping too far. Just enough to clear the inlet port Hopefully someone will have a non-interfered with linkage and will let us both know what the correct measurement is. Cheers

  14. #12
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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    NEED SOME HELP HERE...

    For those of you who have taken the one way valve apart...i cant remember if the OWV housing was sealed by one or two o`rings. From the pic i have taken, it seems that there is a thin o`ring marked as red. But i cant find it anywhere. Maybe its just a weird pic effect. The one inside, marked as white is in place.
    Do you guys know if it uses one inside and another outside?????

    PS- I dont know about the rod lenght...but mine was almost full in. The 10mm bolt was about 1mm far from the 12mm bolt. You can see in the pic.

    The plastic one way valve is mounted like in the pic. I can even see the golden tiny ball inside the mesh.

    HELP PLEASE.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #13
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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    Can't give a definitive answer to that without pulling a SMC apart (think I have one in my spares boxes) but normal engineering practice says there should only be one seal otherwise from your photo you would have two seals pressing against each other.
    If nobody answers overnight I will get into the garage tomorrow ...... and I will measure a push rod as well.
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense

  16. #14

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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    Mine is disassembled right now at home. I will go and take a photo later on.

  17. #15
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    Re: Secondary master cylinder is stuck

    NEW UPDATE

    I can only work on my bike when i leave work, so...

    Cleaned secondary master cylinder, cleaned front calipers, cleaned rear caliper...no drag at all in the pistons...put everything together and SAME STORY.
    Rear wheel is now dragging more than it should. Front wheel doesnt drag that much. When i press rear brake pedal, rear wheel gets stuck for 2 or 3 seconds, then releases for itself, but the rear wheel keeps dragging.

    Only thing i didnt took apart was the rear master cylinder. Dont know if has something to do whit it.

    Im full of brake fluid in my hands an shoes...i`m tired.

    Help please.


 
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