Head bearings
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Thread: Head bearings

  1. #1

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    Head bearings

    Would like opinions on what head bearings do you use?
    Mine need doing

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  3. #2
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    Re: Head bearings

    I've gone back to OE ball bearings having fitted tapered rollers and not got on with them. You can get the bearings from a few online suppliers https://www.cbrxx.com/honda-cbr-xx-r...-bearings.html but surprisingly they are not much more expensive from Honda.

    BTW roller bearings seem to suit my supercharged Bird but not my more standard touring Bird.
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense

  4. #3

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    Re: Head bearings

    Agreed, put my red back to standard. However the other bird really suited the tapers. Bizarre. If you go tapered be very mindful of the torque differences and the need to properly seat the cups...particularly the bottom cup.

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  6. #4

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    Re: Head bearings

    Had mine done at a MC garage and they used All Balls.

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    Re: Head bearings

    Have the stock rollers in mt bird and tapered in my sons but we're both running Busa conversions. The stock rollers have a little less stiction by design so theoretically they should tip in a little easier. It can all come down to your riding style. If your doing a lot of twisties the stock may be more your style. But if you live where poor road conditions exist and your hitting dodging potholes the rollers would be less prone to dimpling the races.
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

  8. #6

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    Re: Head bearings

    I just got my bearings...did I mess up? You guys are mentioning tip in / handling...didn't know bearings affect driving characteristics :/



    Are these any good?

  9. #7

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    Re: Head bearings

    Tom
    No your fine open roller or stock like you have will make no difference. it's if you switch to tapered roller bearings.
    TheDuck likes this.
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

  10. #8

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    Re: Head bearings

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuck View Post
    I've gone back to OE ball bearings having fitted tapered rollers and not got on with them. You can get the bearings from a few online suppliers https://www.cbrxx.com/honda-cbr-xx-r...-bearings.html but surprisingly they are not much more expensive from Honda.

    BTW roller bearings seem to suit my supercharged Bird but not my more standard touring Bird.
    Duck,
    I find your post rather amazing and comforting at the same time. I think somewhere on site I went on and on song and versus about how much trouble I had getting the tapered rollers to work in my 1998 model year machine. Some much lack luster performance (in a feel in the steering sense) that I (attempted) to adjust the new tapered set about four or five times. Then I replaced them twice. Then attempted more adjustments to the last set of tapered rollers and then finally went back to the OEM ball bearing set up. Very frustration bit of wrenching. I know we chatted about all the advantages of the tapered roller set up, but I, like you, get a better feel from the ole' ball bearing install. I'd still go so far as to say "it was the mechanic working the job" that screwed something up...but I thought I was extremely careful in my work. Still can't explain the 'weird" drop into the corner feel that the tapered sets produced at slow speeds.

    There is some related chat (part numbers and such) located here: https://www.cbrxx.com/suspension-tir...ng-code-1.html

    I still lose sleep over it sometimes.

    T.
    "Stemmata quid faciunt."

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    Re: Head bearings

    Quote Originally Posted by TigreST
    Still can't explain the 'weird" drop into the corner feel that the tapered sets produced at slow speeds.
    Exactly what I was experiencing. I was finding cornering an 'act of faith' but some of the small mountain roads in Corsica made me really nervous.
    My Daily Bird has been altered a fair bit (cartridges in the front, +8mm at the rear) but my first thoughts were tyres. A change of tyres and makes made no difference neither did altering the pressures. Suspension set at standard heights (not ridden like that for over 15 years) made no difference.
    Adjusting the tapers made no difference. Where had my sweet handling Bird gone?

    To me there was no logic since the tapers work well in my supercharged Bird.

    The only thing that had changed prior to me falling out of love with my Bird was the head bearings so I changed back to ball bearings (more hope than anything) and bingo my bike was back!
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense

  12. #10

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    Re: Head bearings

    Like Duck i had the same fork cartridge set up and was experiencing a similar problem. Unlike Duck i was experiencing a slight weave/wobble at "higher speeds" , switched back to balls and problem disappeared. Very strange.
    carpe diem

  13. #11

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    Re: Head bearings

    adeyren,
    You and Duck have no idea how you are both blowing my mind right now! I also (it all comes filtering back now) had a similar weave in the handing! Not dangerous, but there was one none the less. I thought I was losing my mind. all the time and energy to install the "best" bits and then I ended up going back to those archaic ball bearings. Wow!

    It's sorta like having been proven "not guilty" of a crime you didn't commit. Thanks guys.

    T.
    TheDuck likes this.
    "Stemmata quid faciunt."

  14. #12

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    Re: Head bearings

    Thankyou to all posters in this thread. Very timely advice. For me anyway. I also have these tapered head bearings. Somehow, they need retightening every 5k miles or so. Just did mine again.

    Handling wise, the bike is very sensitive to the correct torque on this part. Properly set, I have no issues. She feels fine for a year or more, then one day I am suddenly aware that it wont stay in a straight line, especially at speed, and/or windy conditions.

    To anyone looking into this "upgrade", don't do it. No benefit that I can see.

  15. #13

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    Re: Head bearings

    Tiger, Fizzy
    I suspect the wobble you experienced might be do to gyro pre session ( think that's spelled right.) The tapered rollers will have a bit more stiction than the rollers because of increased bearing surface contact. So when the wheel is tipped bearing drag will fight the wheel gyro action and set up a minor wobble.
    Tapered rollers would have the load benefit I mentioned above on rough roads.
    Interesting point to note some of the goldwings run a tapered bearing on the bottom race and a roller on the top.
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

  16. #14

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    Re: Head bearings

    Quote Originally Posted by beestoys View Post
    Tiger, Fizzy
    I suspect the wobble you experienced might be do to gyro pre session ( think that's spelled right.) The tapered rollers will have a bit more stiction than the rollers because of increased bearing surface contact. So when the wheel is tipped bearing drag will fight the wheel gyro action and set up a minor wobble.
    Tapered rollers would have the load benefit I mentioned above on rough roads.
    Interesting point to note some of the goldwings run a tapered bearing on the bottom race and a roller on the top.
    Beestoys, exactly right. For me it only happens if the assembly is a little loose. For whatever reason, they keep reseating and need retightening?

    A small amount of play at the headstock with this setup translates to a large amount of play at the wheel.

  17. #15
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    Re: Head bearings

    As a side note to this, Honda have 'history' with tapered bearings. If I remember correctly the 954 Blade (certainly a Blade) came from the factory with tapers and the handling upset a lot of buyers of the 'latest and greatest' ..... turning too fast, 'falling over', certainly in the UK they offered to retrofit ball bearings free of charge to any dissatisfied customers.

    From an engineering point of view the tapers (which transmit loads totally differently to ball bearings) offer considerable advantages but if they don't feel right (as in my case) they have to go in the bin. Yes the balls won't last so long but that is a small price to pay. Adeyren and I spent many hours 'in discussion' when we were both suffering less than perfect handling and for both bikes we ended up in the same place and the two totally different problems disappeared.

    fizzy I have no conclusive idea why you have to keep re-tightening your tapers (never touched the bearings on my supercharged Bird since fitting - but they are different bearings and yoke) but one thought, the tab washer!
    Long time since I bought a new Bird one but I have a feeling they are slightly 'dished' when new. This would produce a slight spring effect when the lock nut is tightened down stopping any rotation. Is it possible that the bearings are not reseating but rather that both nuts are loosening off slightly together?
    The factory WSM says to replace the tab washer when you replace the bearings (does anybody?) and if my memory is correct and the washer is dished then this would account for the instruction to replace. Thinking logically (dangerous I know) if the tab washer is perfectly flat what purpose does it serve apart from locking the two nuts together? If you had one nut the size of the two nuts the same friction would be achieved and you wouldn't need to tighten one against the other. Basically my train of thought is what is the purpose of the tab washer if it isn't to perform an extra 'locking' action.
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense


 
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