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Thread: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by stellborn View Post
    Hi. A bit of thread hijacking here... I wonder how or if this issue was fixed? O.P. hasn't followed up here, so I'm curious how this went down since I maybe have a similar issue with my 1998 BB. It's not that extreme in the fuel consumption, but still not very good, and smells a bit too much of gas from the right exhaust while riding. I have'nt been able to check the sparkplugs yet.
    Thinking of hooking up a clear fuel pipe to the drain on the carbs as beestoys said to check if the floater valve is stuck. Since this is easyer than getting the sparkplugs out... Is there anything more to think of with this kind of issue?
    (There is not any fuel in my vacuum tube to the petcock.)
    Edit: I thought that I should smell the motor oil again today, I've done that a while ago and it was not smelly. So, I opened the oil fill cap and smelled it. Of course it was smelling of petrol/gas! <img src="https://www.cbrxx.com/images/smilies/crap.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Crap" class="inlineimg" />
    So, to clear out my different things to check and in what order:
    1. Check floater valves as beestoys advised
    2. Check sparkplugs condition and function
    3. Check vacuum valve in the petcock
    4. Should I check thermostat or is that not needed on a carbed bike since it has manual choke?
    Still in the process, cleaning carbs at the minute

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  3. #17

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    Quote Originally Posted by stellborn View Post
    Hi. A bit of thread hijacking here... I wonder how or if this issue was fixed? O.P. hasn't followed up here, so I'm curious how this went down since I maybe have a similar issue with my 1998 BB. It's not that extreme in the fuel consumption, but still not very good, and smells a bit too much of gas from the right exhaust while riding. I have'nt been able to check the sparkplugs yet.
    Thinking of hooking up a clear fuel pipe to the drain on the carbs as beestoys said to check if the floater valve is stuck. Since this is easyer than getting the sparkplugs out... Is there anything more to think of with this kind of issue?
    (There is not any fuel in my vacuum tube to the petcock.)
    Edit: I thought that I should smell the motor oil again today, I've done that a while ago and it was not smelly. So, I opened the oil fill cap and smelled it. Of course it was smelling of petrol/gas!
    So, to clear out my different things to check and in what order:
    1. Check floater valves as beestoys advised
    2. Check sparkplugs condition and function
    3. Check vacuum valve in the petcock
    4. Should I check thermostat or is that not needed on a carbed bike since it has manual choke?
    Make sure you change the oil before running her otherwise you risk bearing troubles
    The answer is 42

  4. #18

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    Honda CBR 1100 XX Super Blackbird 1998 11400 mi
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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    Begin Edit:
    I will add some more info! After the photos.
    End Edit.

    Hello again

    Sure I won't be driving without changing the oil. (At the moment the oil doesent seem to be very diluted. But anyway I will not drive before changing oil.)

    I have checked theese things:

    1. Floater valves as beestoys described = They all seem to have the same level and not too high.
    2. Sparkplugs = They all work as in giving spark, but they don't look very well. It seems to be oil on them. Please look at the enclosed pictures and give advice.
    3. Petcock vacuum = Seems to be alright, I did some manual sucking through a new vacuum hose, and I did not get petrol in my mouth, only after much suck/blow I got a whif of petrol on the air. I will check this with a vacuum tester later when I get one. I don't think this is the thing broken after seeing the spark plugs.
    4. Thermostat = I have not checked this yet.

    Maybe it's time for a professional mechaninc to look at this now?

    Pictures of the spark plugs:
    Cylinder 1 DSC_1096.JPGCylinder 2 DSC_1097.JPGCylinder 3 DSC_1098.JPGCylinder 4 DSC_1099.JPG

    OK
    Here's some more info I've come to realize is important.
    So here's the history of the bike in my hands. It was sold as a 72 kW version here in Sweden, I think the first owner just got rid of the intake restrictors (or what they are called) because the metal parts of them are not there anymore, just the insulators marked with 72 kw. The first owner sold it to a friend who got sick, so he bougt it back, and then sold it to the person I bought it from a year ago. Sadly enough I did not buy from the first owner and by that I don't have the complete history of what they did to the bike at that moment of taking out the restrictors.

    I bought it in beginning of April 2019. Drove it home about 500 km's. I thought it was using a bit much petrol, but I also understood that I'm not used to this bike. I was not really alarmed. But it smelled a lot of petrol fumes while driving slow or stoping at red lights. But I recalled my old Suzuki GS1000 from -82, which smelled a bit also, but not really this much tho.
    I went out on some runs with my friends, they where complaining about that the biked smelled of raw petrol. So I started to search for the problem. I got to this forum and started to read about all fuel related problems I could find here. One of the things that was often mentioned was to check for petrol in the motor oil. So I did check that, and there where no smell of petrol in the oil. So I have been keeping on reading and checking stuff.
    During this time I had a small accident were I drove really slow in a round about and braked to hard so I lost control and the bike fell over on the right side with the motor running. After that I kept on reading here and thought that maybe I should check the oil for petrol again. And this time it smelled of petrol. So I started to write in this thread to get som help.

    So I showed this thread to my friend. He asked me if maybe the petrol in the oil comes from the accident when the bike were running laying down on the right side running havoc with all the vacuum hoses and such? And maybe the fact that I seem to have oil on all four spark plugs, comes from some release tube from the engine block to the air box? And that has been clogging up in the carbs and making it running rich?
    As it happens there is oil inside the airbox around the intake to the carbs which seems to come from the foam surrounded hole in the back of the air cleaner box. But this is maybe normal?

    One other thought I'm starting to entertain is that maybe the carbs has the wrong jets and settings for the opened up intakes?

    It's starting to feel more and more possible that I have to jank the carbs and open them up for a checkup, clean and repair.

    Where can I get a good repairkit for the bird carbs that ships to Sweden? I've seen that som are including new screws to replace the JIS ones, which seems really nice to get.
    Last edited by stellborn; 05-21-2019 at 2:27 PM. Reason: I've got more info!

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  6. #19

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    Stell
    2 and 3 are fat (Rich) what mains and pilots do you have in there?
    stellborn likes this.
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

  7. #20

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    Maddi
    What have you found out with your Bird?
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

  8. #21

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    Quote Originally Posted by beestoys View Post
    Stell
    2 and 3 are fat (Rich) what mains and pilots do you have in there?
    Yeah I thought so. I don't know what mains/pilots I have. See my edit in my post above.

  9. #22

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    Stell
    Best to open up the carbs. You could have wrong slow and mains jets but the only way to know is to open it up. If it has sat for any length of time they may be clogged up some. So open it up and clear everything out note the sizes and go from there. Also check the needles and make sure they haven't been changed as well.
    stellborn likes this.
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

  10. #23

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    Quote Originally Posted by beestoys View Post
    Stell
    2 and 3 are fat (Rich) what mains and pilots do you have in there?
    I have checked spare parts for my bike at cmsnl.com and according to their list I should have #145 on all four and pilot #42 and the same needle as all other except California. I wonder why my bike have larger and equally sized main jets? Is our petrol that different? It would be interesting to know more about this.
    I have changed the oil and filter now. The old oil is really smelling of petrol! I will not drive until I checked both compression of all cylinders and cleaned the carbs.

  11. #24

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    US jetting has inner cylinders larger than outer. I don't have access to my FSM. I will check it tonight when I get home.
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

  12. #25

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    My Honda Parts Manual says 1997 142 outer, 145 inner, slow 42 and for the 1998 145 outer, 150 inner, slow 42
    98 TITANIUM Blackbird
    OzBB.net Administrator

  13. #26

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Para045 View Post
    My Honda Parts Manual says 1997 142 outer, 145 inner, slow 42 and for the 1998 145 outer, 150 inner, slow 42
    Is that for Sweden or what region?

  14. #27

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    Honda Factory Service manual I have states 1 and 4 are 140 and 2 and 3 are 142 with a 42 slow jet. needles should be J5FZ's. Judging by the color of those plugs i'd switch them the these numbers.I think you'll find it will help out.
    The rest of the info states
    2 3/4 turns out initial on the idle screws.
    Float level 13.7mm (0.54 in)
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

  15. #28

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    I've ordered repair kit for carbs and petcock, I'll check which jets I have present in my carbs. Then I'll decide what to do when I have more facts. The repair kit will for sure have a different set of jets compared with my carbs! :-)
    I will report back here when I know more.

  16. #29

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    Quote Originally Posted by stellborn View Post
    Is that for Sweden or what region?
    Australia
    98 TITANIUM Blackbird
    OzBB.net Administrator

  17. #30

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    Re: 1997 blackbird horrible mpg

    Hi
    Here's an update of my troubles.
    I have replaced all four floater needles and the floater gasket. The needles where not very noticable worn out, just barely showed a thin line around them. But I think it needed to be done.

    As I suspected there where #145 jets on all four carbs. They are still there, I have not replaced them, but I am thinking about it. The rebuild kit contained the US jets, 2x #140 and 2x #142.
    I will first get it running on 95 octane instead of 98 that I have been using and then get the air/fuel screws adjusted. After that maybe considering changing jets.

    One thing I noticed when I were going to put the carbs back, is that it is a bit hard to get a perfect fit at the intake manifold and with the airbox. It required a fair bit of wriggling back and forth before I got that tight. (This could be one of the things that made the bike stink of petrol, I may have been missing this when I open up this part the first time!)

    I am still waiting on the petcock replacement parts. The first one was mislabeled on the ebaystore I bought it from, so the part I got was for an other bike which were almost working in my setting, spent two hour tying to get it to work before I realised that it was the wrong part! :-/ They where nice and gave me a refund, but it's APITA to be waiting for slow deliveries, again.

    So at the moment it smells a bit of petrol, but not that much as before! But I think it's on it's way to be fixed.

    I will be posting updates as soon I know more. It will be a long writeup after this is fixed... :-)
    o4xx and beestoys like this.


 
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