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Thread: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

  1. #61

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuck View Post
    My gut reaction is that it is the RR that is giving problems (but yes the stator could be breaking down under heat).
    The battery is 'new' (OK that is no guarantee)
    We hard wired the stator to the reg rec (soldered). The remaining contacts in the plug block were clean.
    When we first checked the block it was 'nasty' with a sticky film all over and inside it, no idea what that was.
    I'd be very interested what the fully charged battery reads - disconnected - connected - ignition on - then running, all should be above 12.5v

    then check in round the starter solinoid - connections on mine fell apart and were fused and burnt

    if all the above is ok then something around the RR as the stator sounds fine - the stock RR also has that sense wire from the ignition switch which I would check for 12v (the thin black wire) when ignition on

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  3. #62

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    As Geoff has mentioned that sense wire is also the gate for the R/R's output if it is sensing low voltage it will kick the output up and could be a source for your hot regulator. Or it may be gating on a large amount at first then breaking down and shutting the R/R off.
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

  4. #63

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by beestoys View Post
    As Geoff has mentioned that sense wire is also the gate for the R/R's output if it is sensing low voltage it will kick the output up and could be a source for your hot regulator. Or it may be gating on a large amount at first then breaking down and shutting the R/R off.
    What I reckon I am going to do is get a stator done by Wcountry windings and a swishy RR from a merica, do it again.... Then hopefully the bike is usable before the snow comes!

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  6. #64

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by beestoys View Post
    As Geoff has mentioned that sense wire is also the gate for the R/R's output if it is sensing low voltage it will kick the output up and could be a source for your hot regulator. Or it may be gating on a large amount at first then breaking down and shutting the R/R off.

    I honestly think the Stator is fine since your test had a good result

    the sense wire (black thin wire) from the ingnition switch can be fed directly from the battery for testing purposes - just run a wire from the battery + to the RR then start her up and check the voltages again on the battery and see if you are getting the 14v+ RR output, if you see an improvement then you need to check that wire - you could also read it with your meter - with ignition on you should see your battery voltage 12.6v+

    As I stated above I would be interested in all the battery voltages at various states of operation - fully charged battery, as your bike is a carb model there is not a big pile of stuff that can go wrong, the FI model has a lot of extra stuff to run which is why it has a larger output generator system

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    I am having an issue right now were the battery gradually runs down in traffic - the reason can be clearly seen on my volt meter when the charging voltage drops on low revs, it is a very simple concept - if your battery voltage is 12.5v then if the charging voltage drops below that then the battery will drain when siting at idle, at idle the charging circuit (RR output voltage) should still be at about 13v 0.5 volts above the battery voltage which means the battery is trickle charging at idle and not draining...………………………….the RR should be able to maintain at least above standing battery voltage at idle, on an FI bird in traffic you have several high current drains - fuel pump - fan motor - FI unit - and headlight - the charging circuit should be able to power these at idle without the battery...……….…..mine doesn't and I am having to charge the battery about every 2 weeks and run with the headlight off - I didn't need to do that 14 years ago when the bike was new, new RR I am fitting doesn't use the sense wire and I'm also fitting a new stator

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffXX View Post
    .... as your bike is a carb model there is not a big pile of stuff that can go wrong, the FI model has a lot of extra stuff to run which is why it has a larger output generator system
    FYI The bike is an inj.
    Before we started work yesterday I carried out a current leakage test and we saw 0.6mA. Just a tad higher than it should be so that passed my 'sniff test'.
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuck View Post
    FYI The bike is an inj.
    Before we started work yesterday I carried out a current leakage test and we saw 0.6mA. Just a tad higher than it should be so that passed my 'sniff test'.
    oh ? I thought it was carb looking at RR pics, anyway

    still interested in battery voltages I asked for above and also sense wire test

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Geoff
    A FI in traffic will not keep the battery charged if the fan cycles. The only way to offset that drain is to bump the idle to over 2K. I run full LED's in all my lights and the system still can not keep up at an idle at 1500 RPM even with my Series MOSFET R/R from jacks roadstercycles
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by beestoys View Post
    Geoff
    A FI in traffic will not keep the battery charged if the fan cycles. The only way to offset that drain is to bump the idle to over 2K. I run full LED's in all my lights and the system still can not keep up at an idle at 1500 RPM even with my Series MOSFET R/R from jacks roadstercycles
    Really ?, I never had a problem when the bike was younger - never ever had to charge the battery - in fact sitting in traffic for over 1 hr and it struggles to start at all - it's a hot climate here 365 days a year and the fan will always kick in when in heavy traffic, I have a Volt meter on the Dash and can observe the voltage all the time - my battery is new and at full charge is 12.7v, in traffic with fan on the RR output drops to 12.4 at idle obviously at that point the battery is discharging - it shouldn't be, I know you say that is normal but I would argue it is not, like I said I never had the problem before and I've had the bike for 14 years or so, I have HID lights fitted so there is a huge reduction in wattage from the headlight but in traffic I turn it off

    I'm fitting a new Stator already ordered (will test the old one first before fitting) and a new RR hoping to see an improvement in idle voltage - the new RR doesn't have the sense wire connection, so see how that goes, I suspect the stator is key and some are underated for the FI Bird, I got one from Jaws that lasted a month and put the old one back in and it was an improvement but still not great

    I think the key is the stator output voltage at idle, anything below 50vac is not good enough, if I remember correctly the current stator is about 35vac at idle - the Jaws one burn out in a month with one winding going down

    anyway when I get the parts I'm going to do some testing and comparisons so I have a good idea of what to expect

    PS - what put me off LED lights was the wattage increase on 55w stock bulbs the HIDs are about 20w, I believe LED's are about 80w
    Last edited by GeoffXX; 05-13-2019 at 2:16 PM.

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffXX View Post
    Really ?, I never had a problem when the bike was younger - never ever had to charge the battery - in fact sitting in traffic for over 1 hr and it struggles to start at all - it's a hot climate here 365 days a year and the fan will always kick in when in heavy traffic, I have a Volt meter on the Dash and can observe the voltage all the time - my battery is new and at full charge is 12.7v, in traffic with fan on the RR output drops to 12.4 at idle obviously at that point the battery is discharging - it shouldn't be, I know you say that is normal but I would argue it is not, like I said I never had the problem before and I've had the bike for 14 years or so, I have HID lights fitted so there is a huge reduction in wattage from the headlight but in traffic I turn it off

    I'm fitting a new Stator already ordered (will test the old one first before fitting) and a new RR hoping to see an improvement in idle voltage - the new RR doesn't have the sense wire connection, so see how that goes, I suspect the stator is key and some are underated for the FI Bird, I got one from Jaws that lasted a month and put the old one back in and it was an improvement but still not great

    I think the key is the stator output voltage at idle, anything below 50vac is not good enough, if I remember correctly the current stator is about 35vac at idle - the Jaws one burn out in a month with one winding going down

    anyway when I get the parts I'm going to do some testing and comparisons so I have a good idea of what to expect

    PS - what put me off LED lights was the wattage increase on 55w stock bulbs the HIDs are about 20w, I believe LED's are about 80w
    On the led current draw- the watts they quote are against a std halogen bulb, not what load the leds take- ie they are saying the lumens output is equal to an 80w halogen
    Last edited by Krisbiker2; 05-13-2019 at 6:49 PM.
    The answer is 42

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    My BB only pulls 11 amps full circuit load now. But the fans coming in will put it to 20 Amos in rush. My voltmeter shows 14.4 at idle of 1500 with a current draw of about - 3 Amos but it's also a mosfet series. When I am running freeway speeds at about 45 to 4700 I show 14.6 to 14.7 volts and again -3.2 amps. I attribute the negative amps to the R/R's design. It's actually unloading the charging circuit slightly offsetting the systems total pull of 11 amps by 7 amps. But not going to zero as it sees the system voltage is upper 14's. I also run heated gear for me and the misses and when its active the amperage swings higher as expected to keep system voltage at 14.5 to 14.6 still.
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisbiker2 View Post
    On the led current draw- the watts they quote are against a std halogen bulb, not what load the leds take- ie they are saying the lumens output is equal to an 80w halogen
    sorry you lost me with that - so what wattage is an LED bulb ?, I was looking at a set and the quoted watts were 80w and some were even higher - the wattage is equal to what they draw in current and 80w is high, the light output was very impressive but very sore on a BB charging system, maybe for high beam and HID low beam would be OK, on an FI BB the charging system is a weakness as we all know, adding more continuous load on low beam IMO is not an option

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffXX View Post
    sorry you lost me with that - so what wattage is an LED bulb ?, I was looking at a set and the quoted watts were 80w and some were even higher - the wattage is equal to what they draw in current and 80w is high, the light output was very impressive but very sore on a BB charging system, maybe for high beam and HID low beam would be OK, on an FI BB the charging system is a weakness as we all know, adding more continuous load on low beam IMO is not an option
    Geoff,

    I think Krisbiker is correct. LED bulbs consume less power than incandescent for sure. How much less, don't know actually. I will get back to you soon on that.

    Also, regarding this black sensor wire on the factory R/R. This wire gets battery voltage from the start/stop circuit, telling me that the R/R is looking for 12V on that wire on order to turn on. To test simply disconnect this wire and check the output of the R/R. Modern retrofit R/R's like the mosfet SH020AA don't have this wire, and are always on.

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Geoff
    I've run both LED lights with and without a dedicated fan. There's a about a 1 amp difference between the 2. I had a set of HID's in and they pulled an amp more per bulb running. Now the inrush was a lot more. Typically 30 Amps for about a second or 2. The set I have now throw almost as much beam as the HID's. The beam looses about a couple degrees spread on each side. But when compared to propagation out front they are equal. But I will say that me and my son do know that when my LED comes up it will wash out the HID. They are both 6k units. The Led just throws out that much more light. I also like the instant on of the LED.
    Route 191 formerly Route 666 Some say that this section of the
    road has 1100 curves in 95 miles.

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    Re: Not charging (again) - 4th time in <3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by beestoys View Post
    Geoff
    I've run both LED lights with and without a dedicated fan. There's a about a 1 amp difference between the 2. I had a set of HID's in and they pulled an amp more per bulb running. Now the inrush was a lot more. Typically 30 Amps for about a second or 2. The set I have now throw almost as much beam as the HID's. The beam looses about a couple degrees spread on each side. But when compared to propagation out front they are equal. But I will say that me and my son do know that when my LED comes up it will wash out the HID. They are both 6k units. The Led just throws out that much more light. I also like the instant on of the LED.
    yes I just did a bit more digging - there is an LED Brand GTR (supposed to be the best) and they have a current draw of 2.1amps which is about 25w but some others are a lot more especially older technology that use fans etc - but wow they are expensive lol

    Yes the HIDS do have an initial spike when they are turned on but that is not even worth consideration

    anyway off topic for this thread I think

    PM me with details of what LED's you fitted - cheers


 
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