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Thread: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

  1. #46
    Need 4 speed = Food 4 thought!
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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    If you can't find the problem, you can always try a SuperBrace on the front. I've noticed it to be a big improvemtent in stability on several Blackbirds with steering problems. Some we did know what the problem was, some we didn't......
    It doesn't fix the origin of the problem, but will mask the effects.......

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  3. #47

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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    I installed a fork brace this year with all the new mods. I think it's a worthwhile mod. There are two sets of RW tracks, in a corner, on my favorite local ride. The brace helps in these instances.
    '02 Bird, Yoshi SS full system, PCIII, Corbin GunfighterLady, Givi hard bags with full lighting system, Goodridge steel lines, HIDs, Pazzo levers, Jaws front suspension + RaceTec GoldValves, fork brace, Penske adj rear, Acumen GI, Heli Bars, Hel oil lines, BattleStep rear sets, Samco red silicon rad hoses. Dyna Coils. Galfer wave rotors.

  4. #48

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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    Thanks for reminding me CB I have to install my Superbrace as well as a bunch of other stuff........

  5. #49

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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    For what it's worth, if I take my hands off the bars, mine wobbles.

  6. #50
    spannermonkey
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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    Thanks for the help and replies.

    I havent been able to reply because I work abroad a lot, also the Bird is not together again after having the frame checked with ultraviolet dye.
    Working on it this afternoon, and should be finished tomorrow.

    I have checked EVERYTHING, and all bearings/adjustments are correctly done, but they were anyway....and the bike handles well without the luggage, but I bought the bike for fast touring, I have 3 other sportsbikes, on the road.

    I have seen a post on the web somewhere...that says you can take the rear shocker out in 15Mins..
    I have a workshop manual, or 2, but that looks more than a 15 min job!

    Can it come out quick? and is it possible to do alone?
    I may get it rebuilt, although it is'nt short of damping,even fully loaded.
    Sunday will tell.
    Thanks
    Don

  7. #51

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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    Can it come out quick?
    Yes!
    I think shop manuals tell you to release the top of the shock from the bracket that passes through the frame ................ this is a real pig of a way to do it!

    Lift back end of the bike to a decent height. Support the swing arm at the position that there is not a lot (no load is a real sweet point) of load on the triangle plates. Take the lock nuts off all the Triangle plate bolts. Remove the nut from the top of the shock mount (a deep socket is good here otherwise the nut will round off - ease the plastic undertray to get a good purchase). Remove triangle plate and push bolt ends out of the way (or you can remove the triangle plates fully and clean/grease the bearings more easily) and turn the shock to release the rubber grommet from the rad overflow tank, lower the shock. You will need to lift / lower the swing arm a little (allows the spring to clear the 'hole') and you might have to swing the shock about the pivot in the mount ..................... well you know what you are doing, give it a joggle!

    15 minutes tops if you include lifting the bike and cleaning all the road crud off before starting.

    A few months ago I swapped shocks (K-tech out for re-build and Nitron in) the whole job including setting the ride height and damping in an hour.
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense

  8. #52

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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    If you take your time your looking at half an hour ... I dont bother with the top bolt (the one through the frame) and remove the bolt that holds the top piece on (the one that goes through the rubber that holds the rad overflow bottle in place) but each to thier own here ... there is enough room with bike on centre stand if you still have one! A little jiggling in places but in essence an easy job The longest part is cleaning everything before refitting .. although in the UK I don't know why we bother as the next week it's back ......
    Slowly rebuilding the fastest black one ....... Can't rush perfection

  9. #53

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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    Interesting post scrappy, I take it you remove the bolt that passes through the shock top eye.
    I tried this the first time I removed the shock and put it down to one of those 'shop book methods' that I would never use again like 'going in from the front' to change the spark pugs.

    The problems I found were twofold
    1. Getting a decent swing on the spanner/socket to remove the bolt.
    2. Couldn't get a torque wrench in properly when replacing the bolt.

    So am I missing a trick or is it just my cackhandedness?
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense

  10. #54

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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    No I don't think your missing anything ... I've had issues with that top nut before when adding the spacer. I guess I'm quite quick with a spanner (a shorter spanner helps) and I had no way to raise the rear enough to remove the frame bracket. No torque wrench required (Being an old mech engineer I can feel when most bolts are 'right')

    Also now have the socket pieces that allow angles / dangles that help in these tight spots.
    Slowly rebuilding the fastest black one ....... Can't rush perfection

  11. #55
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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuck View Post
    1. Getting a decent swing on the spanner/socket to remove the bolt.
    I invested in a set of those ratchet headed ring spanners... makes life alot easier.
    http://www.cbrxx.com/honda-cbr-xx-re...ital-dash.html
    http://www.cbrxx.com/body-paint-elec...e-99-05-a.html



    I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

    But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

  12. #56

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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    OK glad to see I'm not missing any tricks just a case of 'horses for courses' then.

    On lifting the rear end no special stand/jack is necessary if the centre stand is still present 4"x2" timber (100mm x 50mm) under the stand feet is more than adequate. That of course means that you need to supprt the rear wheel / swingarm - some may prefer to remove the rear wheel since this gets rid of a lot of the weight when you need to lift/joggle.

    I agree with you Uglystick, I treasure my ratchet spanners, until you have a set you don't know what you are missing out on!

    As for the callibrated right arm I was blessed with one of these as a 'birth present' but as the years have passed and various bought torque wrenches have found their way into the bin I do sometimes wonder if it needs re-callibration.

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this 'how quick' section of this thread is the assumption that all bolts can be quickly and easily removed! My preventative maintenance programme includes cleaning/regreasing the linkage at lease once a year so bolts are always 'free moving'. I have had in the past to cut through linkage bolts with hacksaws - if that is the case add 2 hours to the job! - another good reason to look after the linkage!
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense

  13. #57
    spannermonkey
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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    How I laughed and laughed when I read this!! : ))

    Unfortunately it was after I had not succeeded in getting the shock out. Lack of tools, and no car on Sunday.
    I needed a ratchet spanner which was at my workshop, not my house garage.
    I have been out for a run and no difference, wobble at 40mph still there, tried different tightness on head bearings, no effect on wobble.
    Afternoon off tomorrow, so going to put in a spacer to see if it weights the front., then get the shock out. One thing at a time.

    However...after many hours trawling the internet, it seems it is a common problem for Birds to have exactly the problem I have with a Givi rack fitted.
    There are posts on this site and the others.
    It seems to be a Common problem.

    "older post:
    I have experienced this problem in the past, it is worst with just a top case but, if the side cases are fitted without the top case there isn't a problem.
    A pillion also makes the problem disappear.
    It's also helped by having the regular tyre pressures (42psi) and loading the side cases more than the top case if you really have to have all 3 without a pillion.
    I never noticed a problem with just the rack fitted.
    To be honest though, it was always worst when slowing down to about 40mph rather than being at a steady higher speed where it never created a problem for me.
    These days I use the Kriega tailpack way more than cases anyway."
    And this....
    "It is not uncommon for just an empty rack to cause the wobble mate..
    Personally I would simply check the headstock bearings are ok, check the front tyre has not worn oddly, check the swing arm is ok and if all well simply live with it.
    It is a peculiarity of the Bird that the slightest added weight on the rear end can cause this problem "



    Looks like I'm stuck with a wobble! Will see what difference the spacer makes, then check the shock, but its looking like a steering damper is needed with a rack fitted.
    thanks for the help, appreciated.
    Don

    Last edited by spannermonkey; 10-18-2011 at 7:09 PM.

  14. #58

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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    I do not think that a steering damper will solve this issue your having. I caught the picture you posted to your gallery the other night, maybe it was in that left side of the home page preview pic's..whatever,..first I'd seen of your machine with the top box. It appears to me that the top box is rather high and very much rearward on it's mount. This of course is how they intended the box to be mounted,..but still it seems rather high and far back in relation to the rest of the bike. Top heavy comes to my mind when I see it. Now I know that the box may be empty or full..no matter..the "look" is top heavy to me. The required movement from the front end might only have to be extremely small to set up the motion of the box attempting to steer the bike from the rear. The steering counters the boxes move...then the box counters that steering move..the steering counters that wobble..and so on and so on. The normal input required to effect a steering change are very small. So the required input to set up the 40mph wobble might be equally as small.

    I'm some what reminded of the feel one might get when taking a first time passenger for ride as pillion...they don't lean when we lean so in effect they end up steering the bike from the rear seat. Remember that feeling? A steering damper never helped to dampen out this effect in my experience. The onset may be outside the realms of damper effectiveness....you'd have to have the damper at the upper end of the adjustment range perhaps. What do you think?

    I'm well aware of the utility of the top box but I've not really like the look of them..they sit to high above and off the back of the bike for my liking. The coupling between the box and the bike chassis seems extended in a way...and the further away the input force is the more effect (leverage) it will have on the load (bike).


    I've been using the Cortech soft side tail bags which keep the bikes profile and pillion weight lower, and even gone to the Sport version of the Cortech tail bag to further force myself to pack leaner and meaner when on tour. I'd not be putting up with the handling anomaly myself..the box would be gone.

    I hope you can prove me wrong on this. I will state..I've got no proof of what I state above...it's all opinion and gut feel if you will.

    Secondly,..I've not seen a clean damper install for the XX. The sport bike steering stem units do not work because our tank is to far forward..theres no room to mount it in a normal sport bike sense. Please post whatever you come up with.

    Tony



    http://www.cbrxx.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24813&d=1298602682
    "Stemmata quid faciunt."

  15. #59

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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    Another idea: Although we don't want to give up on fork travel and under bike clearance...but do you think dropping the fork legs in the triple clamps would help counter the effects of the top box? It would shift a bit more loading forward....hmmmm...but it would also change the rake angle....and that would speed up steering.....which would what..bring on other issues?

    You said your doing the rear shock shim?...maybe this will help. Same thing only different I guess. Interesting issue. How to solve for problem A and not create problem B, C, D.

    Tony
    Last edited by TigreST; 10-18-2011 at 8:24 PM.
    "Stemmata quid faciunt."

  16. #60

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    Re: What could make my bird wobble at approx 40MPH

    Not wishing to state the obvious (but I'm going to!) but have you tried the bike with the top box removed? I can't remember you saying that you have. If you haven't I suggest that should be your first test.
    Full of Hot air? Intercool yourself............ you know it makes sense


 
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