[Toynut]

Hi guys, There seems to be a pretty good interest (.org site) in a jacket that is available through an Ebay store "Batman Jacket" that may be customizable for the forum members with the XX logo on the back.eBay Motors: BAT NAKED LEATHER MOTORCYCLE RIDING RACING JACKET COAT (item 270189165683 end time Nov-22-07 17:26:29 PST)

Per my posting on the .org site:

I went ahead and spoke with Alex of Leather Paradise (Los Angeles) about the possibility of coming up with a Group Buy on an XX jacket for the group based on their "Batman" jacket on their Ebay store, per this thread: Public Discussion Forums (Powered by Invision Power Board)


He said that he thinks that the company is willing to make a custom run using our logo of choice with a run of 20 to 25 pieces, possibly at a better price (setup charges might be involved).

If there are enough forum members interested in such a piece then a decision must be made as to the logo on the back panel, which is a synthetic piece on top of the leather .

We need a concensus and some quality artwork to send them if this is to go forward.
If there are any forum members in the L.A. area who want to go and see the product for the group's benefit (fit, quality, sizing, etc.), it would probably be a good idea.
Their number is (888) 367 5002 Mon-Fri 10-5 Pacific, ask for Alex.


At this point I believe we are at least halfway (interest wise) to our goal of 20 pieces or so for a production run.

Any interest on this site? Any L.A. members willing to make a field trip to check out the product?
Thanks again.

[Nutter67]

A lot will depend on the final price. Do these have a zip to attach to pants?, If not, how much to add this?

[X1rider]

Where, exactly is it made?

[Toynut]

A lot will depend on the final price. Do these have a zip to attach to pants?, If not, how much to add this?

The jacket comes with an 8 inch zipper and extra piece to sew in your choice of pants. They also sell several styles of leather pants on their site to zip in to the jacket.


I am posting this on the .org board to see if some L.A. members can go visit the place and to ask the pertinent questions. I will call Alex today and get their address and post it asap.

[chuckfastbird]

Hi,

I would be interested in a jacket if the art work looks good can always add a jacket to the other 7 I have.

Chuck

[monsieurnet]

on the 7 jackets

[Toynut]

Likewise on the 7 jackets!

[Toynut]

I spoke with Alex today. The jackets are made in Pakistan. They have some flexibility in the sizing and do have a measurement guide on their Ebay site. They have a warehouse facility in the City of Commerce and do have product there available for inspection/fit/etc. They are able to do a back panel in several colors so the Super Blackbird design with the red lettering looks doable. Alex suggested that since they are not a retail store that visitors need to call him to schedule a visit. Their number is (888) 367 5002 Mon-Fri 10-5 Pacific.
If someone has some camera ready art of the CBR1100XX logo, kindly PM me with an attached jpeg file. If the forum had done a silkscreen or embroidery order previously, you should have access to it.

The location of the warehouse is:
6310 Corsair
City of Commerce, CA 90040

[breakaleg82]

Toynut - I think that particular logo would be awesome on that jacket however, I think the jacket would look better if it were collarless similar to the Icon jackets. Is it possible for them to be made without that top piece of leather?

[Helvet]

We are interested in a few of these (about 5 if I have to guess right now).
Are the jackets with European or USA zippers? European are right-hand operated, USA are left-hand operated.....
Is it also possible to have the Blackbird Owners Club Logo on the sleeve?

I can get you both the logo's. Where should I mail it to?

[Toynut]

Are the jackets with European or USA zippers? European are right-hand operated, USA are left-hand operated.....

I believe in the US, garments with the zipper (or buttons) on the left side are specific to women's clothing, as a general rule.

[hayseed20]

those are nice i would love to have one

give the busa boys somthin to talk about

[ebock]

I am very interested in such a product. Given that the insert is plastic, could various colours be made available? If not, still interested.

[zypp]

i'm in!!!

[Mancrius]

I´m In too... But... Could someone help me to send it to brasil ?!

Thanks !!!!

[WALLY53]

I am very interested in such a product. But would need help to send to Australia.
Im i too late ?
Thanks

[Toynut]

I am waiting for a couple of members who offered to visit the distributor to do a field report on the jacket to see if it suitable to commit to a Group Buy. I will keep the forum informed as soon as possible.

[Toynut]

It's been a while since I posted any progress, but, the project was not forgotten:



Joint review by LensmanXX and Toynut of the Batman jacket for the forum:


CONSTRUCTION
Lensmanxx
The jacket is constructed of heavy leather, with double sewn seams in critical areas. The jacket has both removable and sewn in armor. It comes with an ‘insulating vest liner’ that is held in place by snaps. This is one spot where they cut cost. There are two small vents on the front by the collar bone, and two small vents on the back; they open to around four inches each. There is an interior pocket, and the two outer zipped pockets are easy to access. There is a very good cinch waist strap, and a Velcro tap at each wrist. There is a keeper tab at the neck as well. The sleeves have both zippers and Velcro at the wrist. The weather flap behind the zipper that closes the jacket is generous and will help to block wind from coming through.

All in all, this is a well constructed jacket. However, I could not ascertain what kind of stitch was used. .A chain stitch, for instance, would allow a whole section to unravel. Alex, our contact, believes a saddle stitch, or some other stitch was used to assemble the jacket. I tested an out of the way spot to see if I could get the dye to rub off. It passed the test.

The stretch panels at the arms and waist are made of leather, with a stretch backing, which you can see from the inside of the jacket. The Keprotec arm panels provide some stretch, since the arms are a very snug fit, but are not waterproof. The ‘abs’ have some padding, but it’s more for appearance than functionality.

Toynut
The jacket looked like a reasonably good quality garment. I concur with Ira’s observations on the construction of the jacket. The components of the jacket seem to be of good quality and it really is an acceptable jacket to be wearing in should you have a spill. The venting system appears to be inadequate for warmer weather as these 4 inch vents will not flow enough air on a hot day, even at speed. Personally, I prefer the vents to be closer to the sides of the jacket in front in a vertical orientation and horizontal along the back (like a ‘stitch), or, at the very least, a longer set of twin vertical openings, not only for their air flow, but, to keep a jacket from “ballooning” at speed, which usually leads to chafing. The back pad was very stiff and would possibly add to some discomfort on a warm day, as it is a solid non-articulated piece and does not have bumps or “standoffs” to allow for circulation between it and your shirt. The jacket was advertised as being 1.4 mm thick, but we both mic’ed it to be about 1.1mm + or - .1mm in the spots I was able to measure. Not bad, but the jacket did not appear as heavy (or stiff) as some of my other ones.

ARMOR.
Lensmanxx
The armor is some of the best I’ve seen in terms of protection in a jacket. It uses CE dual density foam (very stiff) in the arms, shoulders, and back panel. The sewn in armor provides additional protection, but does interfere with the CE armor- more on that later.

Toynut
Due to my fit issues, the top of the elbow pads ended up a bit below the tip of my elbow. While I could move the pads upward a bit in their Velcro’ed pocket in the sleeves, as soon as I put the jacket on the elbow guards would shift back down my arms and become a wrist guards. The shoulder piece seemed a bit smaller and more cupped than on some of my other jackets, but that may have been aggravated by the tight shoulder fit.

FIT.
Lensmanxx

The jacket fits well around the waist, with some space in the neck. In my case, a wind triangle will keep out the wind coming in the neck opening. The sleeves are a snug fit. A heavy sweatshirt will be about all that can fit underneath. This is due in large part to the armor. The sewn in panels push on the CE removable armor, especially at the shoulder. You can feel the edges press into your arms. A little work with an Exacto knife on the edges will solve that. The same goes for the base of the back pad. The armor will somewhat restrict arm movement if you raise your arms. It’s a trade off for the better protection. One of the Velcro tabs extends to the end of the sleeve, and rubs the skin. This could be very annoying after a while.

Toynut

I am 6 foot tall and weigh about 260 lbs with some reasonably beefy arms/shoulders and upper chest area. I typically wear a size 38 to 40 jeans and a size 48 to 50- regular sport coat depending on the cut. Based on my measurements, Alex shipped me a size 54. I was wearing a long sleeve button-down shirt when I received it and found that I could not get it on without removing the liner and switching to a very thin shirt. While I fully expect a leather garment to eventually mold itself to the wearer, it was like putting on a tight neoprene wetsuit on a sweaty day. I am sure this will help keep the armor in place during a crash, but I would hate to have to take it on or off several times during the course of the day. The torso and waist seemed to fit well (lining removed), but the sleeves were about 1 ½” to 2” too long. Even with my arms extended to a normal riding position, the top of the cuffs covered up about a third of my palms.
When I spoke to Alex about this he suggested a size 56 jacket for a better fit (which I dutifully ordered for the evaluation) even though the sleeve length was still going to be the same. I generally wear a size 18-18 ½ shirt with a 33-34 inch sleeve for reference. An interesting observation is that there is an articulated area just above the back of the elbow (lower triceps area). I could understand the need for flexibility in on the inside of the elbow area (or the back of the knee), so it does not really serve any useful purpose as far as I could see.

VEST.
Lensmanxx

The vest that comes with it is useless. To be fair, it’s no worse that the liner in my First Gear jacket or the Cortech leather jacket my daughter wears. A good fleece vest will work better. The chest area has more room for layering. The jacket is for moderate temperatures, not too hot, or cold.

Toynut
I concur, even though it is made of Thinsulate. I would not be able to wear a fleece under layer or electric liner underneath due to the tight fit.
APPEARANCE.

I printed out the CBR logo and taped it to the back of the jacket to give members an idea of what it will look like with the CBR logo on it.

CAVEOTS.
Lensmanxx

The only thing that really concerns me are the sleeves. They are fairly tight for a 42” jacket. Some my size with large biceps would have a problem. To be able to wear the jacket comfortably, that person would have to remove some armor, defeating some of the functionality of the jacket as safety gear. Toynut found the sleeves to be tight as well, as well as too long. It appears that the jackets are designed with a fairly tall and slender person in mind.

Toynut
I thought that by supplying my measurements as directed by the site, that the fit would have been closer to being ‘spot on” than it was. Most off- the- rack 2X jackets fit me reasonably well; however, this one did not. My concern is that unless the manufacturer changes their sleeve diameter to something a bit looser than race-spec fit, that the majority of the members may find themselves with a too-tight fitting customized XX jacket, and will end up putting it in the for sale/or trade section in the forum. Don’t get me wrong, the quality/value of this jacket is quite worth the $200 or so (+shipping) it would take to have them made. I do believe that unless you are cut a bit more on the thin side, you will not be happy.

Conclusions:
1. You can order your own off the shelf “Batman” jacket from Alex and see if yours will fit better than ours did. Your only outlay is the freight back and forth. If there are enough of you satisfied with the stock fit the project can commence. Or……….We can ask Alex if the manufacturer is willing to loosen up the sleeves a bit and possibly install longer vents, front and back, too.
2. LensmanXX and I spoke about possibly contacting another supplier of motorcycle-spec jackets for this type of project. Any opinions?
3. We can have an embroidered patch made (12 inches or so wide) for members to sew/glue on to their own favorite jacket. Make sure you use a sealant/cement between the patch and the leather/material to keep water out of the thread holes in the leather, though. A simple small XX may also look pretty good on an upper arm or upper chest pocket, too.



And now............................................... ...

Ok guys and gals,

After many phone calls to Alex at Leather Paradise, I have come up with two possible options that I am going to pursue for the forum members.
But first, let me recap the events as best as I can…

When Angee originally posted the “Batman” jacket that she found on the E-Bay store, there were a fair amount of positive comments by the forum members (myself included) about the look and style of the jacket. When members started to comment about having a custom logo done on the back panel on the jacket I began to take an interest in pursuing the matter further. I originally contacted Alex at Leather Paradise and was able to get their address in the Los Angeles area. I attempted to contact several members in the L.A. area to pay them a visit but was unsuccessful. Interest in the jacket continued to remain quite high, though.

Finally I was contacted by Ira (LensmanXX) who had a working knowledge of leather garments and together we decided to order a couple of jackets for evaluation/fit purposes, It was important for us to do so in order to see if the vendor and the product were worth the efforts, and to avoid anyone getting burned by poor product choice.

As our write up states, the jackets were ordered by giving Alex the size measurements that he requested and we each had a jacket to try on within a matter of a few days.

I also ordered a +one size larger jacket from Alex, due to the overly restrictive fit issues that I experienced with the first jacket. Alex was off sick for a week and by the time he got back, an EBay order had gotten the last jacket of that size that I needed.
I called Alex and asked if they would be willing to make some design changes in this jacket to better accommodate a larger percentage of the forum members, as I and Ira are a 100 pounds apart and yet, we both still had fit issues in the sleeve and shoulder area. I have found garments manufactured overseas to frequently not be truly “American sized”.

Alex called the manufacturer in Pakistan for me and they agreed to make the changes that I would want. The front-end cost for a pattern maker to do a new design would run $700, which I offered to front for the group, to get the project on track. I also mentioned to Ira that among the collection of bike leathers that I own, I favor a couple of jackets/pants made by a company called Xpert Sport. I ride on occasion with Brian (Spicholy), and he also has a pair of Xpert leather riding pants. My local distributor, who sold me this brand a few years back, told me that Xpert was a division of a fairly large bike apparel company, but thought that it was no longer in production. Based on my experiences and those of others who have bought their products, I feel confident in making this appraisal. Their fit is spot on, the quality is extremely high, the armor is very good, and the leather is close to 2mm thick, the venting of the jackets is also very good and they come with a pretty usable removable Thinsulate liner. I suggested to Alex that I ship him one of my jackets to see if they could copy the size proportions and incorporate some of the design features of this jacket (including thicker cowhide) to the new hybrid jacket. Alex agreed to ship the jacket to Pakistan and even offered to copy the Xpert jacket for us.

On a hunch, I spent this morning trying to see if this company still existed. With a little research and a few phone calls, I found that Xpert is a division of First Manufacturing, who is the parent company of First Classic, FMC, First Racing, and First 4 Her. They are located in Oceanside, New York. I called my old distributor and found out that the accessories manager had moved on and is now the accessories manager of the largest Michigan power sports dealer. I have a pretty good working relationship with Linda (she outfitted me, my family, and friends, with all sorts of motosports gear and is a very knowledgeable person) and she said that this weekend they would be having an open house and that the First regional rep would be there. She is quite certain that either Xpert (still very much available) or another brand of bike leathers (can’t remember the name offhand) would do a custom panel for our group. She also said they would be very interested in supporting a Group Buy, with an aggressive discount for the membership. Linda always gave me at least 20% off on the entire product lines in her previous location (I spent thousands $$$ per year there).

In summary, I plan to pursue this option further, as I would rather not be shooting blind with Leather Paradise in the hopes that they will get it right the first time for the membership. While the Xpert jacket is also made in Pakistan, the fit and details are definitely geared towards the American consumer.

I will post up the jacket catalog pictures this weekend. Expert jackets are also available with some interesting color accent combinations should anyone want to consider something other than basic black (Redd??). Naturally I will post the ladies jackets as well.

I apologize for taking this long on the project, but, this new turn of events looks very promising and should be worth the wait.

[Toynut]

Some additional follow up:


I went to meet the First Manufacturing representative today to discuss the project. He was very accomodating and made several phone calls for me and we spent a couple of hours or so going over some options.

First manufacturing does a lot of private label clothing for companies such as HD and Columbia.

He brought out a Xpert jacket that would appeal to those looking for a sport touring style jacket which is available in both a men's and women-specific model.
XPM293-men's and XPL193 ladies model are not yet in their catalog.

The jacket is almost an exact version of the FirstGear Scout Mark IV jacket (Rider magazine did a recent write up on this jacket) that Newenough carries: http://www.newenough.com/protective_appare...cle_jacket.html

If you tab on the photos you will see an interesting cargo system that lets you carry a lot of items on these long zippered panels which contain various storage pockets including an IPod/cell phone- specific pocket. The venting on his jacket looked more than adequate, too. There are two 12 inch vertical zips in the front, back vents, and upper forearm vents (very nice), and if I recall, 2 other zippered vents near the biceps. They could also possibly incorporate perforated panels in the design if that is the concensus. The jacket comes with two types of armor including CE approved armor for the elbow and forearms, shoulders and back. The Armor is the same as my Xpert Sport jacket as it has a hard plastic outer shell over a thick padded inner cloth covered pads. There are extra padded elbow sections that look pretty good for additional padding/abrasion protection, and there are also elastic-backed leather accordion sections at the hem and near the armpits. The back of the jacket has a large smooth panel area for a design or embroidered patch. This jacket is made of approximately 1.3 MM soft drum dyed cowhide that feels very broken in right from the first wearing. The jacket has a long sleeve snap in liner and incorporates Kevlar stitching, it is not made of waterproof leather like the Scout, however, but they do have a Sport touring jacket (which even incorporates an adjustable internal kidney belt and a zip in waterproof liner as well as a similar pocket system to the XPM293), should there be enough of an interest.
I asked him if they could incorporate Velcro closures at the neck and arm closings instead of the current snaps and if they could install a back zipper should someone want to order their pants or another make he thought that it would be possible to do so.

They normally would want an order of 100 pieces to make a special run and customize it for us, but, he would check to see if they would do it with 50 or so.
I ordered two jackets for review as he only had a sample of this jacket in large with him.

The Xpert Sport jacket (XP255) that I brought in is no longer in production, BUT, they would do a run if 50-60 pieces were ordered, too.
The Xpert sport jackets is the one I mentioned earlier and I wear them both quite a bit.

He will email me some pictures as well as mail me a catalog for their jackets.

The price point should run between $200-300, more or less, depending on our choice of jackets, although I have not been able to lock in any pricing at this time.

[huntersbird98]

Awesome you can count me in for one...

[sushiman]

sounds like a good jacket,count me in also