licensing requirements?

1100xxben · 03-05-2008, 1:11 PM

A recent thread about a high speed crash made me think about the fact that there are lots of people on here from several different locations and I was wondering what the licensing requirements are like outside Indiana. Personally, I think the requirements are a joke here. They are as follows:

First, you take a written test based on a skimpy little handbook. Took me about 30 minutes to THOROUGHLY read through. After you pass the written test, you are granted a permit. This allows you all rights to ride on the street with any bike you please with only 3 exceptions: no passengers, no riding after dark, and you must always wear a helmet. So, Joe Blow who has never touched a motorcycle can walk in off the street, spend an hour studying a little booklet, pass a "test" and ride off into the streets with plenty of distractions around him and learn how to actually ride a motorcycle while putting other people at risk.

After carrying a permit for a month, you take a riding "test". This test consists a few slow speed maneuvers with cones and lines set up. Now don't get me wrong, this test does prevent people off the streets that cannot handle their bike from riding at night (assuming the obey the law), but it's nothing like actually riding in the streets. It was kinda scary waiting in line and watching people go through that barely passed the test, thinking that they were going to be riding down the street in traffic. Also, you could take the riding test on a nimble 250cc bike if you please, then go out and ride your chopper down the street that has a turning radius of 50 feet. After successfully passing the riding test, you are granted a full motorcycle endorsement on your driving license that is good for the rest of your life.

The other option is to take the ABATE riding course. After carrying your permit for one month, you can take a waiver in from the ABATE riding course and get your endorsement with no additional riding test. I think the ABATE riding course is excellent. However, the course is completed with 125cc bikes which do not behave anything like what most people ride on the streets (600cc and up).

I feel that the lack of requirements are what lead to a lot of motorcycle crashes in Indiana, either by lack of experience or improper training. So, the real question is, what are the requirements like where you live and how do you feel about them?

billypf · 03-05-2008, 2:39 PM

Here in IL you have a joke of a test, a parking lot skill test that only tests low speed maneuvers, no realyriding skill, and pass an eye exam. If you do a class at least you get more instruction on the bike, but the test remains the same.

redxxrdr · 03-05-2008, 2:43 PM

In Georgia, Pay $15.00 and take the written. You can ride for 6 months. If you haven't taken the driving portion, pay $15.00 and go the next 6 months.

I like Florida which requires a MSF class. I think limits on displacement while learning would also help.

magley64 · 03-05-2008, 3:30 PM

Depends, Ohio is one of those states that seems leaniant, but the testers can be really strict if they don't feel you have the ability...

Kinda arbitrary, but I'm more about freedom than licensing requirements anyway...

Banshee · 03-05-2008, 4:16 PM

We used to have a similar system, pay for theory test after glancing at book, ride for 6 months, & do it again or do arbitrary test & get provisional license for 1 year, then full, this has been changed...

In NSW, Oz, we now go to pay for initial training, ~$150 last time I checked. Done via Stay Upright atm, a 3rd party rider training company. They have 2 nights theory & prac covering basic techniques, basic bike skills & what to look out for on the road (and more stuff that I have now forgotten came from there).

After that, if you are ok, they give you a certificate of competancy that you take back to RTA (Roads & Traffic Authority), & THEN you can do the easy computer test that you read the book for.

3-6months on L plates, restricted to <260cc & < 150kW/T or selected list of <660cc & 150kW/T.

After this time you (pay at RTA) do the Provisional test again through Stay Upright. This is a full day training, theory & prac. Emergency manouvers, low speed bike control, counter steering etc. The test is a set list of items, points accumulated for failing any one thing, 7 points = pass, 8 points = fail, come back another day. Also includes an on road ride test with supervising rider to observe. If you pass all the above you take a certificate back to RTA & get Provisional licence (or if you are over 30 & have held full drivers license for 5 years, Full license).

12 months on Ps for full riders license. (Although this may have now changed as well, they recently introduced a staged P license with 2 grades over 3 years for drivers, not sure if it applies to riders as well.)

No pillion for 12 months. And still on the capacity/power-weight ratio limits. For P, only pillion restriction for Full.

edit: Stay Upright is a professional rider training company that was running long before this system was introduced & also run a variety of courses, mostly at tracks, ie advanced defensive, cornering / braking, race / suspension & track days.

Oh yes, the highest accident group shifted after this was introduced. Where it was typically the younger less experienced riders who were the highest represented in the stats, that moved to older returning riders who had not ridden for some time. (As I recall...)

billypf · 03-05-2008, 4:52 PM

sorry, need to add the whole permit thing for IL.

You can walk into the DMV pay $10, take a simplified version of the written license exam ( i know it cant be much simplier) and then walk out with you little piece of paper saying that you can ride on the street as long as you are with someone older than 21, and has held an m class for at least a year.

Or you can be like the 60% ( i think that was the percentage) of riders that ride without any license, insurance, or training. Unfortunetly, I think that increased cost and classes would cause this number to increase, even though i agree with more realistic driving test and more extensive training.

DragonXX · 03-05-2008, 6:25 PM

I would assume that here and other parts of the world the driving/riding lessons you take only teaches you how to pass the practical test. This is a very minimalist approach and is the main contributor to accidents. When a young person encounters a situation that wasn't taught in his lesson he has no idea what is required to resolve it and simply panics, ending in a crash.
It should be mandatory for all new licensees to complete 3 advanced riding courses before thay can recieve their Open licence.
I have done this along with about a dozen track days and I cannot count have many times this has helped me out in tricky unexpected situations.
Summary: Getting your licence is not the end of learning curve .... keep learning ....... It will save your life one day

back.in.black · 03-05-2008, 7:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonXX

Summary: Getting your licence is not the end of learning curve .... keep learning ....... It will save your life one day

The point that I tried to make to my wife the other day but couldn't work quite right is......
Just because you can ride a motorcycle, that does not make you a motorcyclist. In that, just about anybody can learn to ride well enough to pass the test. But are they then the type of alert, quick thinking and decisive person that you need to be when riding in traffic. Or do they go back to the same way that they drive a car, in their own world, never looking at mirrors, indecisive and oblivious to other road users.
Some people posess these skills, some people just dont.
By the way my wife is a motorcyclist (alert etc) but I was trying to explain why some people should not be on bikes, like our neighbour who just got a moped to get to work, and I get a shiver down my spine every time I watch her leave the drivway (without looking).

Nutter67 · 03-05-2008, 8:23 PM

to Banshee on Stay Upright.

Here in Victoria, I am not sure what the system is now, but it used to be book in for a VicRoads beginners course where they teach the very basics of motorcycle control (stop/start/turn), then teach you how to pass the test for your learners. Limited to no greater than 2600cc for minimum 3 months but no longer than 15 months. Then you can sit a written test and if you pass you then undertake a roadcraft test (in with the traffic) with an instructor riding behind you telling you to turn X amount of corners and then stop and wait for further instruction/directions. If you pass this part to the satisfaction of the instructor, the you are granted a probationary license for 3 years with engine displacement restriction for the first 12 months.

When I started riding the bigger bikes (GS1000S/CB750FB) I took a number of the Stay Upright courses when they came down to Victoria. I did 2 advanced courses with comprised of 4 hours of theory and 8 hours of practical instruction on a track. I also did their roadcraft course which ended up being 9 hours of road riding comprising city, highway and country riding, with lots of stops so the instructors could tell you what you are doing both right and wrong.

The Stay Upright courses were the best thing I have ever done and cannot recommend them highly enough.

back.in.black · 03-05-2008, 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nutter67

. Limited to no greater than 2600cc ........

Nutter67 · 03-05-2008, 8:31 PM

Yep. I was stuck on a 250cc bike for 15 months (too lazy to sit the test). It was a DR250 chook chaser too.......

I'm probably in the minority, but I dont believe learners and first year P platers should be allowed to ride 660's Even if it is the Suzuki 650 step through.

They should learn how to handle a bike and avoid danger without having to rely on power to get them out of it. In a lot of cases it will be the power that gets them into the trouble in the first place.

back.in.black · 03-05-2008, 8:34 PM

IT wasnt the 250cc bit, just re read the figure that you put in, also in the Kudos thread........
New learner bike Rocket 3....

Nutter67 · 03-05-2008, 8:36 PM

Oops, me bad.

Banshee · 03-05-2008, 8:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back.in.black

Or do they go back to the same way that they drive a car, in their own world, never looking at mirrors, indecisive and oblivious to other road users.

Unfortunately, this sounds like most scooter riders I have seen around. And they are multiplying.

I wonder when the increase in their numbers will be matched by their rate of demise due to inattention & plateau?

back.in.black · 03-05-2008, 8:46 PM

I wonder how many accidents are scooters, not motorcycles?

Maxx409 · 03-06-2008, 1:55 AM

Well, let me chime in for the lone star state (Texas). I had to go into the department of motorvehicles, pay $10 I think, and browse a little booklet for about 5 min. then took the test on a touchscreen computer. Multiple choice and they read the questions REAL slow. Once you pass that you set up an appointment for a road test whereby they inspect your bike. (mirrors, turn signals etc...) and you have to also bring another vehicle with a licensed driver and they check insurance on both.

The tester tells you where abouts you'll be going, hops into the vehicle and off you go. They tell your driver to beep the horn once for a left turn and twice for a right (no kidding folks, this is actually how they do it) it's also a bit tricky to hear through the helmet.

You head back to the DMV where the instructor nitpicks a bit. Signs you off and you head back indoors to pay $15, they take your picture, and give you a temp. printed license until your new one arrives in the mail, with your motorcycle endorsement! Hooray!

Or you can just take a motorcycle safety course, take the completion slip in and get it that way.

Not exactly tard proof, and a bit hoopty to boot, but hey. God Bless Texas!

CanadianBird · 03-07-2008, 8:36 AM

In BC you must have a learner's licence, simple computer multiple choice. You must ride with a fully licenced rider, and you need your learner's to take a M.S. Course. You then need a Novice licence to ride alone, no passengers, night riding, I think. It's good for a year. A full class 6 involves motor vehicle dept road test. They put ear phones in your ear, follow you and give instructions. It's 1 1/2 to 2 hours test on road and feeway, through play grounds and school grounds, tight u-turns, stop, dismount, look both ways and recite the hazzards you see. Occasionally while on the road police might check for proper licencing. The school is tax deductable, takes about 4-5 days with a few hours of classroom instruction and video and a written test. Start in a large parking lot then progress to the street. Day and night riding and whatever the weather brings.

All this doesn't preclude the idiots who feel they know enough to ride without schooling.

BC has tightened both the driving and riding licencing regulations. I think they are heading in the right direction. Insurance is based on engine cc's and safedriving record.

One of my students has his learners and I told him I would ride with him onlly if he received his Novice from a recognizable Motor Cycle School such as the BC Safety Counsel of the like.

waytooslow · 03-07-2008, 2:07 PM

here in texas, written (easy) and a riding test. (no riding test if you take msf course).. that is it, no restrictions.

Hell you don't even have to have a mc license to buy a bike. guess that is why so many busa's never get out the parking lot.

I would like to see some more restrictions as seen in EU and other palces, maybe then we will see lower insurance rates as well.

Banshee · 03-07-2008, 4:11 PM

Here, Stay Upright have a vested interest in training people to survive on the roads, not just to pass the test. Since the success of the rider training shows in the accident stats for new riders, if the stats start to show the rate going up, they will lose their training contract. Also they are all riders who are interested in fellow riders survival, not just the weekly pay.

to the advanced defensive riding courses they offer as well!

ArmyStrong · 03-13-2008, 12:13 AM

NY seems to be same as in TX.

PiAnt · 04-08-2008, 4:46 PM

I passed my bike test on a Kawasaki Z250 brand new 17th birthday. All you had to do back then was to ride around the block a few times and the tester would walk, popping up occasionally to give you instructions. No written test or being followed or anything like that except a few questions on roadsigns et al.

Not the same now I believe. Age and CC limits, written tests and a ride followed by a tester.

xDayan · 04-17-2008, 5:10 AM

In Alaska, You just have to take a written test. and if a cops pulls you over and you don't have a motorcycle endorsement They just blow it off. and the MSF Course is scary easy (I guess all those years of dirtbikes paid off

) When I took it It was a little scary being around all those other riders and they did officially SUCK at riding.