Harley Bashing!

Aurora

A comment from the Texhoss sums it up best:

"On the other hand, if you look at it from the perspective that Harley Davidson does not actually produce a motorcycle and has not produced a motorcycle in several decades, then I believe that only then could you perceive the argument to be like comparing apples to oranges. After all, if you’re comparing a lifestyle accessory (what Harley currently produces) to an actual motorcycle (what the rest of the world produces), then you might just be correct in saying that it’s like comparing apples and oranges or rather it’s like comparing a paisley tie to a Black and Decker power drill.

My point is, when I compare a CBR1100XX to a Harley it isn’t really just to show that the Blackbird is a better motorcycle, but is is substantially better, it is also to show that the Blackbird is a type of motorcycle that Harley cannot produce, as hard as they may try. When I compare a XX to a Harley, it is to show that while the rest of the world has moved on and refined their technology bases, Harley has chosen not to do so and thus they have also chosen to remain stagnant. Harley has not been able to refine its technology base and the rest of the world is so far ahead now, I think that that even if Harley stole some of the technology and tried to reverse engineer it that that they couldn’t ever catch up. Isaac Asimov once said that "any suitably advanced technology will appear as magic to a lesser developed people." For Harley, most of the stuff that rolls out of Japan is considered to be powerful magic."

Nutter67

I must profess that I am not a huge Harley fan, but I do have to come to their defence a little bit here. Harley builds a cruiser that other companies copy in an effort to raise market share. Harley have had the same basic style for many years because people still want to buy them that way - whether it is to buy part of an "American Institution" or to try and increase their rebel bad boy factor or that they just like that style. It seems that people all over the world still want the old school simplicity that a Harley can offer.

As for not evolving with the times, after watching a Discovery Channel doco on the V-Rod, a lot of effort and change went into the new design. Porsche designed and tested the prototype engine - not really a company who doesn't like to incorporate new technology into everything they do. I know they might be 30-40 years behind the times, but the V-Rod is Harleys' first water cooled production bike.

As I said, I am not a Harley fan. I think the handling on their cruisers can be so bad that it is probably easier to get off your bike and find one going in the direction you want than it is to actually turn corners...

Sorry, I just don't really like unfounded attacks based solely on opinion without taking into account all the available information.

Can I wave the white flag now, this was not meant as an attack on Aurora's post.

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Paul

Never let a motorcycle take you somewhere your brain didn't get to three seconds earlier

OMG

I ride with two friends that ride harleys
They each have a different reason
#1 "I can pick up chicks on mine"
#2 "It's like riding a tractor, how much trouble can you get into?"

For me -- it's painful to go slow, but sometimes it's Ok

X1rider

Ha! The buy "American" story is laugh. As a large corporation, Harley sources parts from all over the globe. To wit: suspension from Showa (which is owned by Honda), pistons from Mahl in Germany, wheels from Australia (due to the only place in the world for the trick casting sand), etc., etc. I learned these facts in an article years ago in Motorcyclist magazine. Not to mention the new Buell 1125R motor being bragged about from Rotax. People that buy Hogs are having fun with their faces in the wind, and showing off how much they can spend. We have one in our shop right now, for an inspection and dyno run. Lots of bling bling and noise=60hp. Less than half a BB makes, for about half the money!

Hyperboreean

<snip>
Actually, it was that child molester AC Clarke: "Any tech ... is indistinguishable from magic".

Jason-1999-XX

A few friends ride Hogs. I've tried for a few years now to see the attraction to them. I even bought a '97 Buell Cyclone. The bike was actually a blast to ride (around town) but that damn gearbox is awful. I guess I'll never get it, but that's o.k. I am looking forward to the 1125R.

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Cheers to the best bike ever built... Our Blackbird

CanadianBird

I had a Sportster, but it was underengineered and everything was an add on through the dealer. That being said, the new Bagger with a six speed, 110 cms, hydrolics, and duel braking, seems like an OK buy. They're just too expensive. They have, at least to me, some cache. But I don't think I would own a Harley again without owning a Jap bike at the same time. Perhaps it might be the best of both worlds.

tonyz

here's my experience
I brought my 2000 buell S3 in for service this spring, usually the dealer is kind enough to give me a ride for the day, they just got a 2001 XX in on trade with 10400km, and there it was sitting outside cause they won't put a honda on the floor inside. So I took the bird on a 500 km ride for the day, and let me preface this cause I own 2 buells, one a street fighter and the S3 is sport touring and I like them both, and they've been great bikes. Well I ended up leaving the S3 at the dealer and rode the XX home for keeps. There was just to much difference to ignore, character aside the bird just felt planted to the ground and even though the S3 was nice and smooth at speed, putting around town was brutal, the bird is just a pleasure even at 80kph
Harley's can be great bikes if you limit you expectations, but you can't compare them to the XX, apples and oranges.
so the buell X1 I save for my trips to deals gap,it's light and handles great and has some character, the XX has become my work horse, it's sleek, runs perfect, it's smooth, it's comfy and it fly's.
t.

XX-XR

What if?

http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/harleycomputer.htm

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Gettin old aint for sissy's!

sandyraz

to me it is each to there own preferance i do ride a heritage with a 80 inch evo wich is beefed up putting out 98,8hp its a show piece and i love to ride it its loud and proud.that said it is not fastlike jap tech but at 107k on the clock i have had 2 batteries 3 stators, and went through motor at98kto refresh and beefup it has won 4 1st place trophies best in show and when i jump on my bmw i feel like i am on another planet with comfort technology etc .when i was on the blackbird i loved the raw power smooth gear box .etc i guess i love them all again i will wave at a moped its2 wheels.

CanadianBird

This thread, sandyraz, is useless without pic.

sandyraz

you show me yours ill show you mine just dont be jealous,canadian bird!

zrx1100jim

I like the hypocrites. Jap phone, Jap tv, Jap microwave, Jap stereo, but
they have a problem with Jap bikes.
And this buy American shit doesn't hold water anymore. I have a GMC
3500 with leaf springs made in Mexico. The premium wheels were made in
Hungary. Sure its made in the U.S. but the parts are from all over world.

XX-XR

I noticed that too, I went to a friends house I worked with, a hog die hard, I expected to see a Ford falcon in the garage but there was a Supra, in the house no old Admiral TV, instead a Sony big screen, Toshiba Computer and a array of other hi tech Jap electronics, and what's wrong with the american iron 1973 Scelbi-8H Computer, I guess old school isn't all it's cracked up to be.

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Gettin old aint for sissy's!

Biometrix

I'm new member here and not even in possession of a Bird yet (although that should change next week) but I can offer some insight from the perspective of a metric cruiser rider which is I guess a closer comparison to HDs.

Being realistic...ALL the metric V-twin cruisers are based to some extent on the Harley design. Let's face it, had Harley not glamorized the V-Twin it is unlikely that any of the "other" M/C manufacturer's would have used that type of engine in any bike they designed say after 1968 (if they cared at all about real performance)? However the Japanese not only copied the design, they made it better...much much better than HD. With the exception of the V-Rod (which isn't really even a traditonal Harley at all) the stock VTX1800, Vulcan 2000, Suzuki M109 and others can spank just about any of the stock HD V-twins produced. Plus they are more reliable and less expensive. As it relates to the Honda VTX, they are also made in America with many many American parts and yet my bike is constantly compared to, mistaken for and criticized for not being an HD. It's just something I've gotten used to. I don't even bother engaging in the debate with HD zealots anymore.

But comparing an HD...any HD to the Bird? That's just ludicrous. That's not apples to oranges, that's apples to aluminum siding. That's like comparing some fat old ugly high maintenance fridgid grandmother to a slim young low maintenance swimsuit model that's totally hot in the sack. Why even bother trying to compare?

ZAKKXX

Well, Im not one for HD's but consider this:

They have made more advancements in their bikes in the last 10 years, than Honda has in their XX...

Flame away

Biometrix

Yeah but their "advancements" were an effort to catch up with everbody else. I don't think that you can really consider stopping the bikes from leaking oil and using rubber engine mounts so they stop shaking apart to really be advancements.

97Bird

Even with those advancments, they are way behind in technology.

Overpriced, grossly underpowered, and behind the times as far as I (and many others) are concerned.

As for the Bird not having any advancements - if it aint broke,don't fix it .......

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If you're not going at least 100 miles and 100 mph, you're not riding!

Gary

nuvey

This was posted on a Ducati Monster forum, thought it was a good laugh..

I raced a Harley today and after some really hard riding I managed to PASS the guy. I was riding on one of those really, really twisting sections of mountain road with no straight sections to speak of and where most of the bends have warning signs that say "MAX SPEED 35 MPH".


I knew if I was going to pass one of those monsters with those big-cubic-inch motors, it would have to be a place like this where handling and rider skill are more important than horsepower alone.


I saw the guy up ahead as I exited one of the turns and knew I could catch him, but it wouldn't be easy. I concentrated on my braking and cornering. Three corners later, I was on his mudguard. Catching him was one thing; passing him would prove to be another.


Two corners later, I pulled up next to him as we sailed down the mountain. I think he was shocked to see me next to him, as I nearly got by him before he could recover. Next corner, same thing. I'd manage to pull up next to him as we started to enter the corners but when we came out he'd get on the throttle and out-power me. His horsepower was almost too much to overcome, but this only made me more determined than ever.


My only hope was to out-brake him. I held off squeezing the lever until the last instant. I kept my nerve while he lost his. In an instant I was by him. Corner after corner, I could hear the roar of his engine as he struggled to keep up. Three more miles to go before the road straightens out and he would pass me for good.


But now I was in the lead and he would no longer hold me back. I stretched out my lead and by the time we reached the bottom of the canyon, he was more than a full corner behind. I could no longer see him in my rear-view mirror.


Once the road did straighten out, it seemed like it took miles before he passed me, but it was probably just a few hundred yards. I was no match for that kind of horsepower, but it was done. In the tightest section of road, where bravery and skill count for more than horsepower and deep pockets, I had passed him. Though it was not easy, I had won the race to the bottom of the mountain and I had preserved the proud tradition of one of the best bits of Brit iron.


I will always remember that moment. I don't think I've ever pedaled so hard in my life. And, some of the credit must go to Raleigh cycles, as well. They really make a great bicycle...

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"World Peace Through Deadly Force"

RodeRash

Hmmm. I've heard that same quote from the Harley faithful.

For What It's Worth. I liked my BlackBird, but I never tried to fool myself into thinking it was the greatest thing ever built. It's far from being the fastest, or the best handling, or the smoothest riding bike out there.
It occupied a very small niche market, and (obviously) was not very profitable for Honda.

sandyraz

hey there c bird dont you have anything to show ...

CanadianBird

OK,OK, OK, I haven't posted any pics of my Bird, b/c I'm a ludite although I do use technology in my classroom. The Bird's almost ready for winter storage, unless we get sunny weekends. I suppose it's not that difficult to post up pics and my Bird is very pretty expecially with the mods. I wont say, "this thread is useless without pics" again. Or, at least till I post my own. Cheers. Wouldn't mind living in Arizona or Cali at the moment. Winter's here in the Pacific North West of the great land of "cheese heads".

sandyraz

howdy just funning with ya ,i sent ya 2 of mine.I too couldnt figure out how to down size the other pics, The xx that was stolen was in az.I let my brother use her and it lasted about 3 weeks, so that was a lesson there pricey too.Sandy and I live in TX so pretty much i drive year round or real close to it.The bmw is the cold or iffy weather bike she is different but once you get used to her she is a dream machine. I do miss my xx sorry to hear your driving season is nearing an end i hope the pic's came up good luck
great chatting with you

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CanadianBird

Thanks, fun looking ride. I suppose I could ride year round, I did in the past. I'm only 10 kms from school, no bridges/highways, 50 kms all the way, or so. However when it's dark and wet it's not worth the grief and every year there are more idiots in cages on the roads so it's easy to leave it for the weekend, then ride out of town. I also have a "S-Load" of student assessment to carry to and from. I guess I'm getting old, and a bit "fair weather" kind of rider. Unless of course I'm "out there" and have no choice. The good news in all this is every year several of my grade 10's who are 16 want to ride. I have two new riders from last year so I guess I'm sp