National bike show talked to Honda & Kawie

Aurora

This weekend is the national bike show in Phoenix, AZ. I talked to Honda and Kawie. I saw the Concours 14 ABS. Thus, I have good news and bad news.

First I went to the Kawie display. The Concours 14 ABS was on display. The Kawie people were very friendly, answered all question and were happy to take notes on what I wanted in the Concours.

Here is what I know:

-155 to 160 rear wheel horsepower
-Stator output unknown
-two versions of brakes, both non linked, ABS and non ABS
-Current gas tank is 5.8 gallons, final tank capacity unknown
-Mileage for first major maintenance unknown
-Four Electronic Control Units. You can plug a laptop in to download information. If an ECU fails, the systems on that ECU will fail.
-ZX-14 frame issues are from wrecks and people not checking the torque of the bolts holding the engine to the frame. This is require in the ZX-14 maintenance guidelines
-They want to sell this bike to police departments
-190 rear tire
-They were not sure as to how much heat is thrown on the rider
-They were not sure were the wind hits you from the windscreen (This is the only one in the USA, thus no test rides)

People at the show asked Kawie for:
-Heated grips
-Heated seat
-Rear trunk
-Compartments in inner fairing

Here is what I told then I wanted:
-The bike must be able to rape Asphault
-The bike must handle at all speeds
-The bike must repeatedly stop on a dime
-The Bike must beable to travel 250 miles at 85 mph and still have 1 gallon in reserve
-A stator that will handle heated grips, heated vest, PIAA Lights, GPS, RADAR detector, radio and electronic cruise control while have ample reserve output.
-Electronic cruise control option
-A hugger
-No major maintenance until at least 24,000 mile if even ever
-Rear Trunk option
-HID bulbs...Show bike had them installed
-Bike must be able to hadle 20 miles of stop and go traffic in 100 degree heat without running hot
-The ability to add PIAA lights, a RADAR detector, GPS without splicing into the wiring harness.
-No metal name plates on the bike
-The bike must rape asphault.

The Kawie people listened to everything I had to say. They even wrote everything down that I mentioned as improvements in which to pass back tho Kawie HQ. Next was Honda.

My introduction was as a loyal Honda owner. Not the friendlist welcome from Honda. He asked what I owned. I said a Blackbird. His eyes rolled back and his stance changed. This person just changed personalities in front of me.

So, now I'm talking to my exwife divorce lawyer.

Question:

When can we expect a Blackbird replacement?

Answer:

There will be no such thing. Honda could build one if we wanted to but we don't want to. We have no desire to build the fastest bike, get into a horsepower war and get bad publicity when someone kills themselves on a Honda. The Blackbird didn't have any sales volume. We want sales volume. Honda doesn't what to be know in the publics eyes..we only want to have high sales voulme. We have some things in the works, like a 5 cylinder 800cc GP base engine bike. Kawie really put out a great bike with the Concours 14 ABS.

No, Good bye...Have a nice day


Honda

flitemdic

I don't know what else to say.

Attached Images

 

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N2YN 8/22/2004

Sandman

How can such DICKHEADS make such a lovely bike?????

I always knew the guys from Kwacka had more heart than Honda!

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Beondwacko

Was that what the Honda Reps Really said ??? If so, I wonder if that was a answear that they were instructed to say by upper management or they just made it up as they went? They have a tone in which the XX is the unwanted step child. It's almost too hard to believe that they replied as such.

Mikey

Gee, now you know why I posted this

davesxx01

No big suprise from the Honda guy, but the Kawi people still dont know the stator output or heat, or valve adjustment, ect.?

ekasXX

Although I'd like to see Honda in the game so I might have an option to pick up a used bike when mine wears out, but for now I'm happy with my XX. So, for those that are wanting a newer bike, I hope they get a suitable replacement soon, so I get get your sloppy seconds when mine wears out.

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Ride one and you'll grin ear to ear

Aurora

Went back to the show. I rode the following: ZX-14, FJR1300AE, Harley Street Rod, FJR1300 Manual and the ST1300.

Talk to Honda again. It seems they want to develop a market strategy like Harley Davidson. To sell T-shirts and make a great profit. They even admitted that the Baby Boomers are switching back to performance and dual sport bikes.

The ZX-14 is a very sweet bike.

The FJR1300AE had a tranny vibration which didn't seem to transfer all the power to the rear wheel nor rev as quick as the manual version. Not much drive train lash.

Street Rod...Harley tightly controlled the ride. No accelerations or twisties...straight line riding 40 to 50 mph at all times. Very lame.

FJR1300 Manual had a flat spot off idle and a fair amount of lash in the drive train good mid and high RPM power.

Both FJR's had wind buffet with the windscreens in all position except fully down. I'm 5' 11" so a taller and wider windscreen would be a must.

ST1300 Great comfort and handling at all speeds. No wind buffet at all. Great low and mid range torque. I hit the rev limiter at 8500 RPM. Some hot air blowing on me while riding in 87 degree temperatures.

The my order of preference is, in order of first to last:

ZX-14
ST1300
FJR1300AE and Manual tied for third
Street Rod last

Aurora

KAWIE SAID THE CONCOURS 14 ABS WILL BE A LOT QUICKER IN THE 1/4 MILE THAN THE ZX-14.

davesxx01

Howz that, I'm guessing that it will have lots more low end torque but lots of added weight.
I'm thinking mid 10's,,,,,not mid 9's like the ZX.

MrBadExxample

Every year I go to the International MC show in Washington DC. I wonder if Corporate Honda will give me the same reception. We'll see. I do remember having a very favorable impression of the Kawasaki guys at last year's show. They were very enthusiastic of the ZX14. The Honda guys were also very excited to show off their new innovation - the GL1800 airbag.

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Aurora

They said the variable valve timing will be the ticket providing more low and mid range torque without losing must top end horsepower.

BrianR

Yup - heard that before on the VFR - that was a great innovation
If that dicks up the valve adjustment like it did the VFR I will have to pass on the new GTR.

If you want to replace your XX then look at the Kaw 14 not the GTR/Concours. That would be the replacement for the ST1100/1300.

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Brian R.
Do you know EXACTLY how fast you were going?
Gee Officer between the speedometer, Cyclometer and the GPS I might have a guess

Squareman357

Yes, the VVT will help with the torque spread, but the GTR will be down about 15 RWHP on the ZX and up about 100 pounds. It will probably be quick off the line, but it will NOT be faster than the ZX in the quarter. The ZX is Kawi's new flagship, and I doubt very seriously they'd make their TOURING bike faster than their GT Flagship. It WILL be fast, faster than a FJR or an ST1300, which is its intended competition, but not as fast as a ZX, Busa, etc.

Valve adjustments on the ZX-14 are at 16K intervals. I know of one person already hitting 16K and had the service done, and the valves were in spec, all a bit loose, two looser than the others. Not a bad adjustment interval. I'd think, being that the GTR is based on the same engine, the valve adjustments would be similar. We'll see.

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Square,
Formerly a "Red rider", now representing "Team Green"
Bars up, Wheels Down, Leaning and Rolling On

Warchild

Dunno, Squareman... the lower block looks to be pretty similar, true, but the valve train is obviously different. Who knows what the interval will be... but the bigger issue (to me) is this: what, exactly, is involved in the valve clearance check procedure?

And if it's going to take Special Tools and Equipment like the Viffer VTEC system, that's going to suck moist ass!

Too... there's a couple other big items we still don't have any specs for: fuel capacity, and alternator output. I'm really tired of having to husband my electrical consumption on bikes with modest electrical output, like my XX (460-watts) and my FJR (490-watts). These lower outputs are fine for everyday bike operation... but not so fine for the Iron Butt riders who need aux lamps and fully heated clothing running concurrently...

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- Warchild
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Squareman357

On the valve thing, yeah I guess special tools and equipment would suck. BUT if the interval is STILL 16K, would that be so bad of an interval for adjustments? What do you put on? Like 20K a year? 25K? Maybe not even that much on a single bike, considering you're splitting time between several bikes. That would be a once a year checkup if so...

Warchild, what bikes are built with stators out the gate putting out the kind of power you require for all that stuff? I'm interested in seeing what class those bikes fall in, and if any are similar. Not many people require the kind of "farkleage" you IBA types do, so I imagine most stock charging systems won't be designed with the kind of output you need. Can the stock stator/reg/rec be changed out for a more powerful setup, or does that mess with the rest of the bikes electrical systems? What did you do to the XX to make it meet your needs? I was under the impression that 450 to 500 watts was actually pretty good...

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Square,
Formerly a "Red rider", now representing "Team Green"
Bars up, Wheels Down, Leaning and Rolling On

davesxx01

Dale, I thought the FJR had a upgraded output for this/next year?

BTW: watch your mail (snail) in 4-5 days!

ironmike

Anson, just as a point of reference...

The GL1800/Gold Wing alternator cranks out 1kW @ 2400rpm...

I'm sure Dale can cite other examples from the sport & sport-touring group... although they'll not likley be that high.

Warchild

The Wingabego is an exception, no doubt.....

The old Honda ST1100 had a 540-watt system, the current ST1300 has a 600-watt alternator.

The 2006 and beyond Yamaha FJR1300s have a 590-watt system.

My 2005 Yamaha YZF-R1 has a 570-watt alternator (strange, but true!)

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- Warchild
http://www.superblackbird.com/

BrianR

Dale's whining a little here. I'm riding around with a Vstrom that is under 400 and able to run heated grips (or gloves), heated coat and leg chaps and because of Dale's pioneering use of HID's, enough lights from one low beam light if necessary - BUT, I've still been able to run both HID low beams for a shitload of light along with all the heated gear. Of course when some of the heated gear comes off the Phillips Unshielded HID's come on.

With all that I still have all the other little shit running also, GPS, V1 little light, and soon comm gear and pro oiler.

As for higher output bikes Dale (probably purposely) passed over all the BMW's which usually come with a minimum of 600 and is one reason why so many of the LD types like them. Finally the new wing does have the ability to swap out the alt for a 1500w version just in case you need to ARC WELD!

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Brian R.
Do you know EXACTLY how fast you were going?
Gee Officer between the speedometer, Cyclometer and the GPS I might have a guess

Madcow

Kawi can do it by reprogramming the ecu to open the secondary butterflies sooner.

http://www.bikeland.org/misc/articles/tretest.pdf

mish

The BMW's have 945 watts output K series

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2000 Blackbird, Zero Gravity Sport Touring wind Screen, Throttlemeister cruise control Corbin smuggler seat, Piaa high beam,Regina chain and sprocket kit

XX-XR

I can see Sochiro Honda turning in his grave.

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Aurora