Originally Posted by Partsguy

The only thing I found questionable is the $1500 to stroke the crank.I have a vague idea of whats involved but even if Elton's labour rate was $100/hr should it take 2 days to do it? I don't know,just seems like a lot,but EFR is known for that,he also is the only guy I've heard of advertising he can do it.
As for the 8 hrs-now thats impressive,any place I've worked at previously would charge more like 12 and if the wrong guy did it,it could take 20.
I assume EFR said it should make 180 hp when done? I agree it will have a massive jump in torque figures but with zero headwork I'm skeptical about that high of a number.Hope you make it though.
It will be a kick-ass sleeper-I love those bikes!


I stand corrected-the 6th line says something about head work and something...

Now it is grainy but the $ I see add up to $5840 before tax,they have $7360-tell me I'm missing something otherwise someone is ripping you off...
Like I said its grainy but..

I did a quick add and found that it was 7350.00 so i think you missed something... but your right the figures are not correct... all of the figures end in either 00 or 50 and you cant get a total ending in 60 with those numbers,..

Originally Posted by partsguy

The only thing I found questionable is the $1500 to stroke the crank

because 'labor' wasn't by this item I read this to mean a different crank was to be fitted. 4mm increase is quite a large throw increase, never looked at a Bird crank so don't know if this is possible by modifying a standard item .........

Originally Posted by TheDuck

because 'labor' wasn't by this item I read this to mean a different crank was to be fitted. 4mm increase is quite a large throw increase, never looked at a Bird crank so don't know if this is possible by modifying a standard item .........

Could this be completed by machining the journals down by 2mm and then using different rods????

Originally Posted by Uglystick

Could this be completed by machining the journals down by 2mm and then using different rods????

Well the quote says +4mm from the crank, 4mm off centre grind of the journals sounds a lot to me. The rods (separate item) would need to be longer to give an increase in the swept distance otherwise the compression ratio would drop considerably. It is sometimes possible to 'add' material to the journals and regrind to give the extra throw (but keep strength) but as I said previously I have never examined a crank closely enough to even make a guess if this is possible with the Bird.

Since you solicited some opinions, I hope you do not mind me speaking freely. I do not think any almost 10 year old bike is worth spending that kind of money to re-do/upgrade its motor. Even if I had a spare $8K, there are so many other things that it could be used for. I do not know the story of your bike, how many miles, whether it has any significant sentimental value, if you have any other modifications (suspension, exhaust, etc) completed already, and whether it is otherwise in pristine condition. I just picked up my 2002 a few months ago and it seems fine for what it is designed to do. Even at 150-160hp stock at the crank, it is more than anyone who plans to ride it within reason needs. Is your new motor going to push 180hp at the crank or wheels? Either way it seems like a lot of money for 20-50 additional hp ($400-$160/additional pony).

I have never broken down a motorcycle motor, but have rebuilt my hobby car motor a few times. The last time I did the forged pistons/forged rods/arp fasteners/bored .040 over/etc and I did not come close to that money. I had the machine shop clean and bore the motor and I put it back together. HP went from 195 crank to about 300 wheel hp. Yes, it was turbo and I upgraded the turbo. I will add that I previously did mods such as upgraded intake, exhaust, fuel pump, injectors, some headwork (but stayed with stock valves/springs), race clutch and do have piggyback AFC and run higher boost, but I do not think that all that together equals $8K. So I am not sure why a smaller motor 1.1L vs. 2L motor should be so much more expensive to rebuild. BTW, I did not increase stroke, nor lighten the crank, but compression did go from 7.8 to 8.5 with new pistons and overbore (remember it is turbo so I could not go too high).

If you crave more power, could you not pick up a ZX14 or Busa for that amount if not less? If your bike is high mileage, and you just have to have a BB, are there not enough low mileage pristine BB for sale that you can get for a fraction of the amount you are thinking of spending for a motor rebuild? Is it going to be a show bike? Is the 180hp needed for drag racing? Will the change in performance (^hp/torque) be so significant at the track for competition purposes?

To each his own, but it does not make any sense to me to pay that much money to have a rebuilt motor which increases power at best 33% over stock. Also, the estimate is not accurate. At the very least the quote seems to be charging 2x for shipping. Again, I do not mean to burst bubbles or dissuade you from something you have your heart set on, but I did want to provide a slightly different view. Being an older guy with family (one kid in college and one more starting next year), I see things more pragmatically than when I was younger. I see you are in Camp Casey so I presume you are in the Army. Having been previously stationed in Japan a lifetime ago, I realize that the OLA may seem like a windfall at times, but it is probably better saved for more pressing needs when you return conus.

Good luck with whatever your decision is.

hey mdrsk i will try to answer a few of your questions or statements. first of all thank you for your humble reply yes i could go and buy a busa or a zx 14 for 8 grand. i realy enjoy and love the blackbird yes she holds a sentimental value to me this is the second bird i've owned and the power that she will make is for both street and strip. well i am single and my kids are all grown my youngest grads high school next year and no i am not to young i turn 40 this month so i am still talking to my shop in texas where my bike is stored who is performing the work plus shipping the parts to efr. i know ola is no windfall but saving for it helps out. for me to do this has been a plan for a long time and i hope and love to show people what can be done with a 10 year old bike. i plan to ride and keep this one for as long as she wants me.

Fair enough. At least my bike will have a modified sibling and Silver Birds will not be teased for being the slowest any more. Hooah!

Originally Posted by MDRSK

Fair enough. At least my bike will have a modified sibling and Silver Birds will not be teased for being the slowest any more. Hooah!

from you to me black is beautiful but silver now she really sings. silver shines better in daylight and glows at night.

So what is being done to the head?

Originally Posted by Partsguy

So what is being done to the head?

i am having the head ported with bigger valves and polishing the exhaust ports basicll a complete re-work of the head more air flow more go.

I'd love to see pics with the valves in there.
Were they leaving the crank webs alone or shaving a little off?

I recently owned a highly modified Suzuki Bandit and a turbocharged Bandit at the same time.
The normally aspirated motor made 195 RWHP and 108 lbs of torque.
It was highly stressed and had a short life span. I had close to $10,000.00 in the motor. It may have been good for 10,000 miles.
The turbo bike made 200 RWHP and made 125 lbs of torque and could easily have made more. Just turn up the boost.
The compression was lowered and the internals were stock.
The turbo ran cooler, made more power, was easier to live with on a day to day basis, and was completely reliable.
My buddy has a turboed Bandit approaching 100,000 miles.
From my perspective, there is no choice...with a turbo you really can get more for less.
Hank

Originally Posted by Partsguy

I'd love to see pics with the valves in there.
Were they leaving the crank webs alone or shaving a little off?

on the crank i am thinking they are gonna hardweld some metal to it then lighten and balance it for more of a race type crank. thats what i am thinking.

Originally Posted by HANKSXXX

I recently owned a highly modified Suzuki Bandit and a turbocharged Bandit at the same time.
The normally aspirated motor made 195 RWHP and 108 lbs of torque.
It was highly stressed and had a short life span. I had close to $10,000.00 in the motor. It may have been good for 10,000 miles.
The turbo bike made 200 RWHP and made 125 lbs of torque and could easily have made more. Just turn up the boost.
The compression was lowered and the internals were stock.
The turbo ran cooler, made more power, was easier to live with on a day to day basis, and was completely reliable.
My buddy has a turboed Bandit approaching 100,000 miles.
From my perspective, there is no choice...with a turbo you really can get more for less.
Hank

i unerstand what you are saying hank but for me right now i want to get the most out of the engine that is n/a. i am still thinking on a turbo for my next bike. according to mr fish i should still get a long life out of her with of course good maintenance. i have asked that question to him before.

Since you asked for opinions Bigboi, I'll throw in mine:

First, let me say that HANKSXXX is not talking through his hat, he has a very solid and extensive base of knowledge and experience behind him and I tend to pay very close attention to what he says.

Second, I am planning on installing one of GrahamCUK's turbo kits in the near future because of the reasons Hank mentioned, reliability and driveability being important factors, PLUS the fact that Graham has engineered his kit to fit entirely under the fairings with no visual indication that your bird is breathing fire. He even has an exhaust splitter that keeps the stock dual muffler setup. The price is also substantially less than the quote you posted if I do the wrenching myself, which I will.

I know you're focusing on normally aspirating, but the effort, time and money spent do not come close to the returns availed by forced induction. By the way, you could probably lie about the turbo whine and blame it on the balance shafts.