FredR

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']On Sunday two weekends ago we had a short run out to Bronkhorstspruit from Pretoria (estimate 65k's) and the pack consisited of my 98 Carbed Bird, a K5 Busa a K8 Busa and a BMW K1200S. We stopped off at Roxy's for a quick cup of coffee and then headed back to Pretoria where my freind on the K5 Busa and I decided to exchange bikes.

Now with everyone ranting and raving about the strenght of the Busa, I was expecting explossive acceleration far beyond the reaches of my Bird. Saldy to say (and this may have been reminiscent of a previous robot to robot shoot out with me on my Bird and Richard on his Busa where I held him all the way), I found that the Busa was by no means stronger than my Bird on acceleration. It has torque applenty, definately more than the Bird, but out right accelaration is definately not what I may have expected.

When getting to the first robot after climbing off the N4 I started applying the front brakes and it felt as if the bike wanted to throw me over the windshield. I started tapping the back brakes which initially had zero bite to them and then applied a little more pressure (only minimum pressure on the pedal) and the back wheel locked up and the Busa's ass was all over the place. Further observations that immediately caught my attention were that if your ridding 60, you know it, if you ride 160 you know it even more so as the bike is very involving and requires constant rider input.

At iddle the Busa sounds like a diesel (sorry Suzi), but it is true, add some ballancer shafts and the enjine will be a lot quieter.

All in all, I wouldn't say I was massively disapointed and the okes at Suzi definately did work hard to get this baby right, but the Bird in my opinion still reigns.

Richard said he was amazed by the smooth silent Honda engine and carried on to say how deceptively quick the Bird is. At one point he looked down at the clocks and he was close to 200 and it felt like he was much closer to 100. He also was shockd by how quickly and well controlled the Bird retards her pace and comes to a halt when climbing onto the brakes.

Ok, so those who have ridden the Busa and been lucky enough to ride the Bird may be under the impression that the Busa is stronger and faster, maybe it just feels that way, because the handling is so razor sharp that the bike requires constant rider feedback in a desparate attempt to stay on top. For me, my Bird is a much better ride, will offer much better touring than the Busa and yes, maybe my Bird really is faster than maybe the stock Bird and due to this manages to hold the Busa, but minor variables must be taken into account when putting the two bikes next to eachother. A few of these would be, my titanium pipe that is way lighter than the stock double barrels than Honda put on to meet with emission regulations, the fact that I have no centre stand also reduce my weight applenty and my Powerbronze hi-rise double bubble is much more effective that that on the Busa (also and aftermarket) inspiring a lot more confidence. On the other hand, I weigh in at 80 Kg's whereas Richard is around 120.

Something all Birdies need to take into account, it is much easier to ride the Bird fast than it is the Busa, you'll stop a lot easier and never feel like you're gonna get flung, but with all that being said, one must be carefull not to get too overconfident on the Bird as you are going to get fast with a lot less effort and probably get into trouble a lot quicker than on the Busa.

Again, for me, the Bird rules in all departments[/font]

Nutter67

Nice write up.

Welcome from Down Under. How about an intro?

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X1rider

Deceptively quick indeed. Due to the smoothness of the motor, and .0155 drag co effecient. (sp)

I have ridden a few 'busas and they feel primitive by comparison. Sticking with the 'bird, all 49000 miles of her.

CanadianBird

Yes, an into please. I just had to sit on the Busa to realize it didn't fit me. I think they are rather ungly, butt ugly IMO. Once one deals with the Bird's suspension, front and rear, she corners very well. With braided lines and Pazzo leavers, she stops even quicker. I've owned her since May/'02, 134,000 kms of touring and many upgrades and mods, she the perfect bike. I wouldn't sell, trade, or replace her with anything. I would add to the stable but not replace her. However, I can't quite swallow your 300 kph for hours at a time statement. Cheers

Strek

Welcome from the windy city. I have some time on a busa but not a lot. I live in a big city and found that the busa was harder to handle in slow turns. When we got out on more open roads it was a little better but much more chatter out of the bike and the wind was more in your face on the busa. The faring felt like it was going to start coming off in pieces. I have a stock screen on my bird and feel that it provides cleaner air flow. I didn't like the ride on the busa either. On top of that is the looks. The bird is just a much better looking bike. If I was looking for a bike like the busa I'd opt for a ZX14.

heisti

me too.
your legs are too long. right?

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Catenaccio

Don't mean to jack this thread but it's hit a nerve...

It confuses me why and how the bird gets no respect. (With apologies to Rodney Dangerfield) I belong to two other motorcycle forums - one brand specific, the other purportedly celebrating motorcycle touring. Of course, the brand specific site takes pot shots at everything not of its marque. I can appreciate and understand the mind set of those in love with their brand. What surprises me on the touring site is the crap shoveled at the bird and, even stranger, the apologies owners of birds make for reporting their trips aboard birds. What gives?

I think the bird is fantastic kit. It is superbly well engineered, powerful, sleek, comfortable, and unique. Why then does it get "dis-ed?" Some have called it ugly, but I could make a list the length of my arm of bikes I consider FUGLY. The bird, obviously, wouldn't be on the list.

Motors? There are any number of bikes with motors I admire. The bird's lump, although not a unique design, is truly the heart and soul of the bird. It's powerful, bullit-proof, smooth, and nakes the bike come alive when on song. I realize it doesn't explode when you twist the grip but wonder if that isn't a result of a long wheel base, soft suspension, conservative gearing, and a whisper silent exhaust Is quiet a drawback? (On a purely personal basis, I do not like the stock cans on the bird. But how many owners leave their stock cans on any bike?)

Suspension may be a weakness endemic to birds, but how many owners of other brands change up their suspensions? For comfy, longish trips I think the stock suspenders are fine. For strafing corners or trackdays, the bird is less well equipped than say an R1 or Gixxer or RR. The weight of the bird is a problem if you shoot corners, but hey, something lighter will trump something heavier most of the time. (My wife's Piaggio MP3 corners like a demon, but I wouldn't want to ride it all day like I do the bird.)

In the end, it confuses and infuriates me all the garbage thrown at the bike. Did it receive bad press in the beginning? If it did, since when did some jerk weed journalist hold sway over the fate of something as wonderful as the Super Blackbird?

I repeat - I don't get it!

R1000

I have had a well-kept Bird -97 for a couple of years and now a Busa 08. The Bird was and still is an impressive piece. It is very well designed and engineered, comfy and with astonishing performances even by current measures. I found it a bit weak though, and gave it a well earned head porting, new camshafts etc., including chassi improvements as raised rear, better fork springs and a fully adjustable shock. I loved the bike after getting it handling and moving, as it should.

This spring I tested a Busa -99 and made a few observations. The top end power was no more than in my Bird (almost 155 rwhp) but the Busa midrange was much stronger and responsive. The Busa was under-steered and less comfy, but the seating position was better for active driving, which it couldn’t use because of running wide. The breaks on the Busa did not impress.

I was also reading about the Busa 08, where testers claimed all old Busa issues were effectively fixed (except the ugly butt...). I trusted this information and sold the Bírd and the GSX R1000 -03 and ordered a new Busa. I had discovered that the Busa -99 had some great potential.

The first impression with the Busa 08 was that is really snappy from low rpm thru midrange, but was like hitting a wall at 9500 rpm... The super comfy riding position of my Bird with VFR-bars was missed. After a while the body got used to the Busa’s more forwarded seating position and it now feels unsecure to be raised and a bit unstable as on a my previous Bird when going gets tuff. The too small rpm-range of the new Busa was fixed with a full Yoshimura system and a PCIII. It now runs far beyond the performances of my previous Bird, which was a strong creature by any means.

To make a short summary of Busa 08, not saying the Bird is bad in any way, rather the opposite. The Busa 08 is much more nimble and agile chassi-wise. It also has much better engine performances than the Bird, over the entire rpm-range. It feels like a turbo assisted engine on mid range, where the Birds has always been weak, independent of which mods that are done (except for turbo). You can start the Busa on second gear and short-shift to 6th very quick, and leave it there for the rest of the day. Or push it and wheelie without the slightest hesitation on first gears, anytime. This is not to forget with a gearing for 200 mph .

I would say that anyone not recognizing a new Busa is far beyond a technically older designs as the Bird is, has not tested the Busa 08 or are blinded by the understandable love to the Bird. The Bird is very rewarding to drive and may even be a better touring bike, especially since they cost less than 50% used compared to a new Busa.

I hope I'm not blowing hot steam by this post, but just want to put things into perspective since I've used both a Bird and a Busa a lot, both for commuting, touring and track driving, and these are my hands on impressions.

The picture below shows the power curve on the Busa-08 vs. my tuned Bird.

Attached Images

busa vs BB.JPG (183.4 KB, 120 views)

ArmyStrong

on the write up!from Gotham!

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KiwiBird

One of my riding partners had a '99 Busa and it could certainly out-perform my 'bird in terms of acceleration. I could match him in the tight stuff though. Comfort-wise, we did the NZ equivalent of the Iron Butt (1000 miles in 24 hours) together 4 times and he was always in worse shape than me. He suffered the cracked rear sub-frame like so many others of that period but other than that, it was bullet-proof. The only real negative of the 'busa as far as he was concerned was its ability to destroy rear tyres in 4000 km or less - expensive to run! It ended its life when its owner hit unmarked pea gravel from a shoddy bit of road patch repair and he stuffed it into a bank. A trip to hospital courtesy of a rescue chopper and a month off work but damage to the bike was terminal.

Strek

Well I think this is all good stuff. Good input from R1000 who has experience on both bikes. From my limited experience and my ability to read a motorcycle review I would conclude that the Busa is faster. I don't think that will shock too many of us here. The bird is fast enough for me. I was much more comfy on the bird but the level of comfy could vary by rider and the riders size. I felt much more hunched over on the busa and with it greater weight it just felt like a dog at slow speeds. I am still amazed that anyone would say that the busa handles better but I'm not an expert and there aren't a lot of twisties around here. It feels like the queen mary being pushed around by tug boats going around slow turns comparted to the bird which feels like an F-18 in comparison. I notice the longer wheelbase and the heavier weight. Once again. That is slow turning and not flopping the bike around at speeds like you might do in twisties or on a track. Most of the color and graphics packages on the busa are ugly to go along with the rest of its ugly shape IMO. Others could like the way it looks.
They did make a black one for a while that I liked. I think the ZX14 looks a lot better then the busa. The bird looks better then either of them IMO.

R1000

[quote=Strek;72078]...... I am still amazed that anyone would say that the busa handles better but I'm not an expert and there aren't a lot of twisties around here. It feels like the queen mary being pushed around by tug boats going around slow turns comparted to the bird which feels like an F-18 in comparison....quote]

I experienced the same on the Bird vs. Busa -99 The Bird with a 6 mm shim and new Dunlop Roadsmart tyres provided a MUCH quicker, narrower and more linear turn-in than the Busa -99. Still, the Busa 08’s willingness to turn in quick and keep a balanced line is for sure better than the Bird's. It is more comparable to a real sportbike, which is the result of lighter wheels and revised geometry. Saying this, does not implies the Bird handles bad, which is doesn’t. When a Bird is a slow-turning hippo, which I have also experienced on tested individuals, the reason is too much sag rear, flat tyres, or both.

The weight of the Bird and the Busa is about the same, about 220 kg's dry. Both bikes will gain a significant and noticeable weight loss with a full aftermarket exhaust system.

SilverBrd

Comparing apples to oranges now. Yes the Busa is faster but you are talking about 08 technology and the Bird? 1997 motor and frame. Funny thing is Suzi didn't make anything comparable to the Bird until 99 and then a revised Busa in 08.
I wish Honda would get off their ass and make a 1300 Blackbird to shut up these Busa and ZX14 owners. Then we would be more comparative on which bike is better.
SO............ Name a Suzuki or Kawasaki built in 1997 that was comparable to the Bird at that time and let this discussion continue. Im sure they Dyno's will tell a different story then.

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Strek

SilverBrd... But that is one of the amazing things about the bird. Yes there a some bikes faster. Still after all this time there are few bikes that do everything as well as the bird and then also look as great. How many can still do it after the years have past. This bike has truely passed the test of time.

R1000

Good points . It is real bad that Honda have not been willing to release a competitive hyper tourer that would let the Busa en ZX14 run for the money . I would have been happy to buy a modern incarnation of the Bird, instead of a Busa, but could not force myself to by a brand new Bird when I needed to move on from the –97 bike, as the other bikes now are generations ahead, for the same price.

The Bird has a tremendous reputation due to have been the world’s fastest bike in 1997 and its appealing design, handling and comfort. This is what made it so popular, and still is for us that are not very young. But most persons that buy a new bike in this segment today, will base the decision on the same parameters, and then find that Honda has not done anything significant since late 1996. The need to get the most bang for the money explains why they sell truckloads of Busa’s and ZX14’s. Honda still has the same opportunity and would probably be #1 in this segment, if they were willing to.

There was some interesting information about a new attractive V5 Honda sport tourer earlier this year, which would have been the first choice if not shown up to be false .

Attached Images

VFR V5.jpg (45.0 KB, 46 views)

Leftlaner

R1000, as far as I recall you used to ride a CBR1000F before you upgraded to a 'bird? So it looks like you've been through the whole range from tourer (CBR-F) to hypertourer (XX and Busa) to sport (R1000).

Which bike would be your favorite on the track?

Which one for commuting?

And which one for longer trips?

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R1000

The GSX R1000 is definitely on top on track, very delivering, agile and forgiving. All of these bikes are tons of fun to run on tracks though and the lap times are set by the driver, not the bikes, on an amateur level.

The CBR 1000 F is the most comfy bike, and may then be the best for commuting since it is also cheap to buy used and to own.

All of these bikes are well suited for long trips and I think I rank them as follows:

1) Busa, best all-round bike of them to me (except for the ugly butt...)

2a) Bird with VFR-bars

2b) GSX R1000, much better performance than the Bird but not as comfy

3) CBR 1000 F, it is a real nice bike for longer trips but comes behind the others due to somewhat outdated engine performance and handling.

lois

BINGO........I sooooo agree.

11 years later and the XX is still in the running.....not to many manufacturers have pulled that one off , Suzuki sure hasn't.


As for Honda sitting back and slacking off......well, thats one reason why I have a new Gixxer in my garage beside the XX, and not another Honda.

HONDA YOU NEED TO WAKE UP AND STOP INVENTING STAIR CLIMING EQUIPMENT....HOW ABOUT A NEW BIKE WITH TEETH???


EVEN DENTURES


Lois

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Bradsbird

I haved owned 06 busa and 08 busa

had a bb sold iut bought trhe 08 busa put 10k kms on it and sold it a bought the bb again.

yes it accelarates faster and is more nimble blah blah blah. But the riding position killed me. Plus the engine is really annoying compared to the bb it has a horrible vibration between 4k 5k rpms. compaired to silky smooth bb.

So i don't think with 08 suzuki busa has advanced that much, i much prefer the bird.

Thers not much bebefit difference in "real word"conditions

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CanadianBird

I agree with most of the above although I have not ridden a Busa. As I noted, I sat on it, it didn't fit, and I didn't like the looks. I sat on the Bird, loved it, bought it, shipped to my home. 6 1/2 years later, 134,000 kms later I still love my Bird. But, I did make several, as have others, suspension mods which improve the Bird immeasurably. That plus affordable sound and slight performance mods, handling mods, bling, comfort, safety, touring, direction and speed protection, my Bird is almost perfect. Yes, I want a turbo, but hey, I have to maintains some semblance of common sense, reality and fiscal responsibility. Unless of course I can sell one of my daughters. They are beautiful. No, I wouldn't buy a Busa I'd rather have a few bikes with different engine configurations. As stated, I will rebuild my engine at 150,000 kms and do what I can to get a little more power but keep her streetable. Cheers

DeathWish01

isn't comparing a 97 bird with a '08 busa kinda like comparing a ford model T w/ a new sports car? i mean c'mon at least compare the same year models... plus your comparing a carbed bird w/ a FI busa... which one do you think would have more horse power.. IMO carbs are easier to work with but FI gain HP just for the simple fact that its sprayed instead of syphoned.... unless there is a variable im missing or i just don't know anything about engines...
im not dising the busa other then i just don't like how they look (hey im allowed my own opinion on looks) and im not saying the bird is a masterpiece... but like i said at least compare same or near same year models .. OMHH

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FredR

Deathwish01, I was'nt comparing the 08 Busa to the Bird, I was comparing my 98 Bird with the 05 Busa. Maybe my bike is just a Wednesday Bike o maybe I'm just a better rider than some of my buds or some of the other bikes I've taken on, but the only bike that has left me for dead thus far was my friends 04 R1 which had a Power Commander 3, Graves Pipes, BMC and sprockets changed. This bike I could not nearly catch. I say could not, cause the R1 is written off now and my friend is still recovering. Anyway, another friend has a 20078 Busa that I am sure will thrash me on pull off, I do however manage to stay with him, a 2004 ZX14 and K1200s at a 200 km/h roll on up to top end. Must admit though, I had to work very hard to stay with a friends VTR RC51, but this bike is not stock anyway.

I will soon take my bike for a dyno to see what she does, but many a friend have asked if my engine has been done, because few bikes stay with me. It goes without saying that the newer generation R1's, Gixer's, Blades and ZX10's will probably outrun me.

ironmountain

Honda have to make a new Blackbird. 1400 cc. Lighter. Lowered center of weight. A little bit wilder plastics.

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heisti

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heisti

you love to ride mopeds, do you?
ya mama manufactures the mt01 - 1800cm³

so 1400 sounds a bit old fashioned

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Strek

Sounds like a ZX14. I twin counterbalanced engine as well.

ironmountain

C'mon boyz 'Bigger is Better'

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Gbcbr

I had an 2002 busa, yes alittle more power and alot of vibration at interstate speed, and not the smooth, more comfortable, refined build quality my XX has. My neighbor has a 08 busa, we switch rides sometimes and yes another little step up from the gen I busa in the power department, but still has the vibration at 4000 -4500 rpm's, false neutrals, no available center stand and changing the oil is a nightmare. He loves the thing, but for what i want in a big GT ride, looking at the total package, not just hp #'s, I couldn't switch from my 2003 CBR1100XX for a 2008 busa. Just my 2 cents.

CanadianBird

GhostRider

So why does this dyno run look off by about 1,000rpm or so? Could it be the horsepower and torque aren't meeting where they should at 5,252 or real close to that? I don't care what you do to the engine the horsepower and torque will always equal at 5,252 or very close to that>