Bird vs Busa - Discuss Bird vs Busa on CBRXX, the ultimate on-line community for Honda motorcyclists. Read it in Events / Rides / Ride Reports. (Organize and report on events / rides / trips.)

DeathWish01 · 11-26-2008, 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1000

I have had a well-kept Bird -97 for a couple of years and now a Busa 08. The Bird was and still is an impressive piece. It is very well designed and engineered, comfy and with astonishing performances even by current measures. I found it a bit weak though, and gave it a well earned head porting, new camshafts etc., including chassi improvements as raised rear, better fork springs and a fully adjustable shock. I loved the bike after getting it handling and moving, as it should.

This spring I tested a Busa -99 and made a few observations. The top end power was no more than in my Bird (almost 155 rwhp) but the Busa midrange was much stronger and responsive. The Busa was under-steered and less comfy, but the seating position was better for active driving, which it couldn’t use because of running wide. The breaks on the Busa did not impress.

I was also reading about the Busa 08, where testers claimed all old Busa issues were effectively fixed (except the ugly butt...). I trusted this information and sold the Bírd and the GSX R1000 -03 and ordered a new Busa. I had discovered that the Busa -99 had some great potential.

The first impression with the Busa 08 was that is really snappy from low rpm thru midrange, but was like hitting a wall at 9500 rpm... The super comfy riding position of my Bird with VFR-bars was missed. After a while the body got used to the Busa’s more forwarded seating position and it now feels unsecure to be raised and a bit unstable as on a my previous Bird when going gets tuff. The too small rpm-range of the new Busa was fixed with a full Yoshimura system and a PCIII. It now runs far beyond the performances of my previous Bird, which was a strong creature by any means.

To make a short summary of Busa 08, not saying the Bird is bad in any way, rather the opposite. The Busa 08 is much more nimble and agile chassi-wise. It also has much better engine performances than the Bird, over the entire rpm-range. It feels like a turbo assisted engine on mid range, where the Birds has always been weak, independent of which mods that are done (except for turbo). You can start the Busa on second gear and short-shift to 6th very quick, and leave it there for the rest of the day. Or push it and wheelie without the slightest hesitation on first gears, anytime. This is not to forget with a gearing for 200 mph

.

I would say that anyone not recognizing a new Busa is far beyond a technically older designs as the Bird is, has not tested the Busa 08 or are blinded by the understandable love to the Bird. The Bird is very rewarding to drive and may even be a better touring bike, especially since they cost less than 50% used compared to a new Busa.

I hope I'm not blowing hot steam by this post, but just want to put things into perspective since I've used both a Bird and a Busa a lot, both for commuting, touring and track driving, and these are my hands on impressions.

The picture below shows the power curve on the Busa-08 vs. my tuned Bird.

isn't comparing a 97 bird with a '08 busa kinda like comparing a ford model T w/ a new sports car? i mean c'mon at least compare the same year models... plus your comparing a carbed bird w/ a FI busa... which one do you think would have more horse power.. IMO carbs are easier to work with but FI gain HP just for the simple fact that its sprayed instead of syphoned.... unless there is a variable im missing or i just don't know anything about engines...
im not dising the busa other then i just don't like how they look (hey im allowed my own opinion on looks) and im not saying the bird is a masterpiece... but like i said at least compare same or near same year models .. OMHH

FredR · 11-27-2008, 4:16 AM

Deathwish01, I was'nt comparing the 08 Busa to the Bird, I was comparing my 98 Bird with the 05 Busa. Maybe my bike is just a Wednesday Bike o maybe I'm just a better rider than some of my buds or some of the other bikes I've taken on, but the only bike that has left me for dead thus far was my friends 04 R1 which had a Power Commander 3, Graves Pipes, BMC and sprockets changed. This bike I could not nearly catch. I say could not, cause the R1 is written off now and my friend is still recovering. Anyway, another friend has a 20078 Busa that I am sure will thrash me on pull off, I do however manage to stay with him, a 2004 ZX14 and K1200s at a 200 km/h roll on up to top end. Must admit though, I had to work very hard to stay with a friends VTR RC51, but this bike is not stock anyway.

I will soon take my bike for a dyno to see what she does, but many a friend have asked if my engine has been done, because few bikes stay with me. It goes without saying that the newer generation R1's, Gixer's, Blades and ZX10's will probably outrun me.

ironmountain · 11-27-2008, 5:32 PM

Honda have to make a new Blackbird. 1400 cc. Lighter. Lowered center of weight. A little bit wilder plastics.

heisti · 11-27-2008, 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWish01

and im not saying the bird is a masterpiece...

heisti · 11-27-2008, 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironmountain

Honda have to make a new Blackbird. 1400 cc. Lighter. Lowered center of weight. A little bit wilder plastics.

you love to ride mopeds, do you?
ya mama manufactures the mt01 - 1800cm³

so 1400 sounds a bit old fashioned

Strek · 11-28-2008, 2:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironmountain

Honda have to make a new Blackbird. 1400 cc. Lighter. Lowered center of weight. A little bit wilder plastics.

Sounds like a ZX14. I twin counterbalanced engine as well.

ironmountain · 11-28-2008, 5:12 AM

C'mon boyz 'Bigger is Better'

Gbcbr · 11-28-2008, 10:34 AM

I had an 2002 busa, yes alittle more power and alot of vibration at interstate speed, and not the smooth, more comfortable, refined build quality my XX has. My neighbor has a 08 busa, we switch rides sometimes and yes another little step up from the gen I busa in the power department, but still has the vibration at 4000 -4500 rpm's, false neutrals, no available center stand and changing the oil is a nightmare. He loves the thing, but for what i want in a big GT ride, looking at the total package, not just hp #'s, I couldn't switch from my 2003 CBR1100XX for a 2008 busa. Just my 2 cents.

CanadianBird · 11-29-2008, 9:56 AM

GhostRider · 06-03-2009, 4:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1000

The picture below shows the power curve on the Busa-08 vs. my tuned Bird.

So why does this dyno run look off by about 1,000rpm or so? Could it be the horsepower and torque aren't meeting where they should at 5,252 or real close to that? I don't care what you do to the engine the horsepower and torque will always equal at 5,252 or very close to that>

GhostRider · 06-03-2009, 5:12 PM

I haven't been on a Busa since 2002 and the one thing I remember is the buzz at pretty much any speed. The bike is nowhere near as smooth as the XX nor is it as comfy but you can sure slide better on the seat. The XX is roughly 20 pounds heavier, has roughly 160cc's over the XX and the BHP is off by about 15 to the Busa. Yeah, the Busa is quicker but I don't think it flicks as easily. Overall, I think the XX has a wider diversity of uses and lets face it, once Honda went to ram air and FI the improvements stopped and yet the bike will still hold its own today. With a very little help, I see no reason the XX couldn't give any stock Busa a real headache. One thing is a certain fact, at triple digit speeds the Busa is nowhere near as smooth as the XX.

Poundstretcher · 06-04-2009, 7:21 AM

I think there are only a choice of 4 in this category all are capable of taking you at speeds way beyond your every day needs. Of the other 3 I would gladly take the K1300s but for the price tag and servicing costs Kawasaki is ok but not for me and I just think the Busa is fugly, So if the Bird was not a 10 year + old design and was just being released today as a new model it would more than likely still be the pick of the bunch for me. Let's not forget it's down on cc,s by about 20-25 percent on these other bikes what if it that equated to a 10 percent power increase? Now that would be a nice bike

tregnabm · 06-05-2009, 4:02 PM

Busa's seem bloated and ragged around the edges. I like the cleaner lines on the XX, and you don't get much smoother unless you get into touring rigs. Some bikers relate these qualities we enjoy to a bike that doesn't have a personality, and I think that is why the BB is below the radar for a lot of bikers.

I've been told at a stoplight that my bike sounds like a sewing machine. Well, it's one bad-booty sewing machine then. I don't care about the remarks, I love my BB.

Banshee · 06-05-2009, 6:07 PM

Yeah, but it's one of the fastest & smoothest sewing machines on the planet!

R1000 · 06-05-2009, 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRider

So why does this dyno run look off by about 1,000rpm or so? Could it be the horsepower and torque aren't meeting where they should at 5,252 or real close to that? I don't care what you do to the engine the horsepower and torque will always equal at 5,252 or very close to that>

It is because the European curves are in hp and metric newton meter (Nm) instead of hp and pound-force (ft-lbs)

This changes the 5.252 point to 7.142 rpm.

JUSTME · 06-05-2009, 10:31 PM

G'day, Just my 2 bobs worth. Firstly the Bird is a fantastic, value for money, no fuss machine. Considering when they were penned they are still a great looking bike. I have travelled over a large percentage of Australia on mine free of any dramas. I have been fortunate enough to cover alot of kms on an 05 Bus and about 4 or 500 kms on a friends 08 Bus. From a pure riding angle the 05 Bus is a better bike than an 04 Bird, but it is not 6 years of development better. The Bird is an easier bike to cover big kms on. However when it comes to the 08 Bus, this would have to be the most remarkable bit of mass produced, relatively affordable to many, machines that I have had the pleasure of riding. Honda will have to come up with something very special to top it. Except for the love it or hate it styling it is quite hard to fault. I have a 53 km mountain range nearby that I cover every chance I get. My 06 gsxr has 35000kms on it and most of these were clocked up on this piece of road. I can honestly say that given enough time to get fully used to an 08 Bus you could safely traverse this ride as quickly as you would on the gsxr 1000. Out of the crate it is simply superb. It is nimble, the suspension is fantastic, it revs like a sports bike and pulls like a truck and the factory brakes work fine. I have been tempted to sell my Bird and the gsxr and buy the new Bus. Logic says to keep the Bird as it does everything that I want from it from a touring and commuting point of view and it is still pretty handy in the mountains and the K6 gsxr 1000 is just way too much fun. If you ever have the chance to go for a decent run on an 08 Busa think long and hard before you do it. Otherwise you might just forget about the appearance and buy one. Come on Honda, build a Bird to better it. HAVE A BLAST! Paul.

JUSTME · 06-05-2009, 10:46 PM

How did this topic end up in ride reports?

Nutter67 · 06-06-2009, 1:21 AM

Because the original post was a ride report-come-bike comparison.

JUSTME · 06-06-2009, 2:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nutter67

Because the original post was a ride report-come-bike comparison.

Fair enough. I thought I read the thread initially in the general section and somehow I cocked it up. Thanks Nutter67. HAVE A BLAST! Paul.

R1000 · 06-06-2009, 7:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JUSTME

G'day, Just my 2 bobs worth. Firstly the Bird is a fantastic, value for money, no fuss machine. Considering when they were penned they are still a great looking bike. I have travelled over a large percentage of Australia on mine free of any dramas. I have been fortunate enough to cover alot of kms on an 05 Bus and about 4 or 500 kms on a friends 08 Bus. From a pure riding angle the 05 Bus is a better bike than an 04 Bird, but it is not 6 years of development better. The Bird is an easier bike to cover big kms on. However when it comes to the 08 Bus, this would have to be the most remarkable bit of mass produced, relatively affordable to many, machines that I have had the pleasure of riding. Honda will have to come up with something very special to top it. Except for the love it or hate it styling it is quite hard to fault. I have a 53 km mountain range nearby that I cover every chance I get. My 06 gsxr has 35000kms on it and most of these were clocked up on this piece of road. I can honestly say that given enough time to get fully used to an 08 Bus you could safely traverse this ride as quickly as you would on the gsxr 1000. Out of the crate it is simply superb. It is nimble, the suspension is fantastic, it revs like a sports bike and pulls like a truck and the factory brakes work fine. I have been tempted to sell my Bird and the gsxr and buy the new Bus. Logic says to keep the Bird as it does everything that I want from it from a touring and commuting point of view and it is still pretty handy in the mountains and the K6 gsxr 1000 is just way too much fun. If you ever have the chance to go for a decent run on an 08 Busa think long and hard before you do it. Otherwise you might just forget about the appearance and buy one. Come on Honda, build a Bird to better it. HAVE A BLAST! Paul.

Well said

The Bird is however also quite good on tracks if properly modden and in the hands of a qualified rider. The pictures below are from a recent track day where a friend rides my old Bird, which he ha bought. A lot of pure sportbikes have a hard time to follow him.

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/p.../8601liten.jpg

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/p.../8604liten.jpg

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/p.../8594liten.jpg

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/p.../6645liten.jpg

11-27-2008, 4:16 AM	#22
FredR Bird Lover Join Date: Nov 11 2008 Location: RSA Pretoria Age: 39 Posts: 40	Re: Bird vs Busa Deathwish01, I was'nt comparing the 08 Busa to the Bird, I was comparing my 98 Bird with the 05 Busa. Maybe my bike is just a Wednesday Bike o maybe I'm just a better rider than some of my buds or some of the other bikes I've taken on, but the only bike that has left me for dead thus far was my friends 04 R1 which had a Power Commander 3, Graves Pipes, BMC and sprockets changed. This bike I could not nearly catch. I say could not, cause the R1 is written off now and my friend is still recovering. Anyway, another friend has a 20078 Busa that I am sure will thrash me on pull off, I do however manage to stay with him, a 2004 ZX14 and K1200s at a 200 km/h roll on up to top end. Must admit though, I had to work very hard to stay with a friends VTR RC51, but this bike is not stock anyway. I will soon take my bike for a dyno to see what she does, but many a friend have asked if my engine has been done, because few bikes stay with me. It goes without saying that the newer generation R1's, Gixer's, Blades and ZX10's will probably outrun me.

11-27-2008, 5:32 PM	#23
ironmountain Join Date: Oct 14 2006 Location: Turkiye Age: 47 Posts: 51	Re: Bird vs Busa Honda have to make a new Blackbird. 1400 cc. Lighter. Lowered center of weight. A little bit wilder plastics. __________________ Look Forward

11-28-2008, 5:12 AM	#27
ironmountain Join Date: Oct 14 2006 Location: Turkiye Age: 47 Posts: 51	Re: Bird vs Busa C'mon boyz 'Bigger is Better' __________________ Look Forward

11-28-2008, 10:34 AM	#28
Gbcbr Join Date: Jun 14 2008 Location: south carolina coast Age: 44 Posts: 49	Re: Bird vs Busa I had an 2002 busa, yes alittle more power and alot of vibration at interstate speed, and not the smooth, more comfortable, refined build quality my XX has. My neighbor has a 08 busa, we switch rides sometimes and yes another little step up from the gen I busa in the power department, but still has the vibration at 4000 -4500 rpm's, false neutrals, no available center stand and changing the oil is a nightmare. He loves the thing, but for what i want in a big GT ride, looking at the total package, not just hp #'s, I couldn't switch from my 2003 CBR1100XX for a 2008 busa. Just my 2 cents.

11-29-2008, 9:56 AM	#29
CanadianBird Join Date: Nov 25 2006 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 5,058	Re: Bird vs Busa

06-03-2009, 5:12 PM	#31
GhostRider GhostRider Join Date: May 09 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 189	Re: Bird vs Busa I haven't been on a Busa since 2002 and the one thing I remember is the buzz at pretty much any speed. The bike is nowhere near as smooth as the XX nor is it as comfy but you can sure slide better on the seat. The XX is roughly 20 pounds heavier, has roughly 160cc's over the XX and the BHP is off by about 15 to the Busa. Yeah, the Busa is quicker but I don't think it flicks as easily. Overall, I think the XX has a wider diversity of uses and lets face it, once Honda went to ram air and FI the improvements stopped and yet the bike will still hold its own today. With a very little help, I see no reason the XX couldn't give any stock Busa a real headache. One thing is a certain fact, at triple digit speeds the Busa is nowhere near as smooth as the XX.

06-04-2009, 7:21 AM	#32
Poundstretcher A Rainbird Warrior Join Date: Oct 15 2008 Location: Tasmania Posts: 4,667	Re: Bird vs Busa I think there are only a choice of 4 in this category all are capable of taking you at speeds way beyond your every day needs. Of the other 3 I would gladly take the K1300s but for the price tag and servicing costs Kawasaki is ok but not for me and I just think the Busa is fugly, So if the Bird was not a 10 year + old design and was just being released today as a new model it would more than likely still be the pick of the bunch for me. Let's not forget it's down on cc,s by about 20-25 percent on these other bikes what if it that equated to a 10 percent power increase? Now that would be a nice bike

06-05-2009, 4:02 PM	#33
tregnabm Join Date: Aug 28 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 13	Re: Bird vs Busa Busa's seem bloated and ragged around the edges. I like the cleaner lines on the XX, and you don't get much smoother unless you get into touring rigs. Some bikers relate these qualities we enjoy to a bike that doesn't have a personality, and I think that is why the BB is below the radar for a lot of bikers. I've been told at a stoplight that my bike sounds like a sewing machine. Well, it's one bad-booty sewing machine then. I don't care about the remarks, I love my BB.

06-05-2009, 6:07 PM	#34
Banshee Join Date: Jun 21 2007 Location: Springwood, West of Hell (Sydney), Australia Age: 43 Posts: 1,169	Re: Bird vs Busa Yeah, but it's one of the fastest & smoothest sewing machines on the planet!

06-05-2009, 10:31 PM	#36
JUSTME Join Date: May 05 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 192	Re: Bird vs Busa G'day, Just my 2 bobs worth. Firstly the Bird is a fantastic, value for money, no fuss machine. Considering when they were penned they are still a great looking bike. I have travelled over a large percentage of Australia on mine free of any dramas. I have been fortunate enough to cover alot of kms on an 05 Bus and about 4 or 500 kms on a friends 08 Bus. From a pure riding angle the 05 Bus is a better bike than an 04 Bird, but it is not 6 years of development better. The Bird is an easier bike to cover big kms on. However when it comes to the 08 Bus, this would have to be the most remarkable bit of mass produced, relatively affordable to many, machines that I have had the pleasure of riding. Honda will have to come up with something very special to top it. Except for the love it or hate it styling it is quite hard to fault. I have a 53 km mountain range nearby that I cover every chance I get. My 06 gsxr has 35000kms on it and most of these were clocked up on this piece of road. I can honestly say that given enough time to get fully used to an 08 Bus you could safely traverse this ride as quickly as you would on the gsxr 1000. Out of the crate it is simply superb. It is nimble, the suspension is fantastic, it revs like a sports bike and pulls like a truck and the factory brakes work fine. I have been tempted to sell my Bird and the gsxr and buy the new Bus. Logic says to keep the Bird as it does everything that I want from it from a touring and commuting point of view and it is still pretty handy in the mountains and the K6 gsxr 1000 is just way too much fun. If you ever have the chance to go for a decent run on an 08 Busa think long and hard before you do it. Otherwise you might just forget about the appearance and buy one. Come on Honda, build a Bird to better it. HAVE A BLAST! Paul.

06-05-2009, 10:46 PM	#37
JUSTME Join Date: May 05 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 192	Re: Bird vs Busa How did this topic end up in ride reports?

06-06-2009, 1:21 AM	#38
Nutter67 Administrator Join Date: Aug 31 2007 Location: Cranbourne, Victoria, Australia Age: 43 Posts: 6,123	Re: Bird vs Busa Because the original post was a ride report-come-bike comparison. __________________ *Paul* *Never let a motorcycle take you somewhere your brain didn't get to three seconds earlier*

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