Solved - 2005 Blackbird, surging @ 2 - 3k - rough running, fuel, plugs? help!!

Gareth60 · 07-21-2008, 5:43 PM

Guys,

I don’t feel that the power commander has fixed this issue.

I'm impressed with the power commander in itself, it pulls so much more from low revs and it's much smoother, but my issue of "lumpy" 2-3.5 k is still there. I was not able to get some resisters, so I have not tried it without the O2 sensors.

I'm off on holiday this Friday, so i won’t be using it for 2 weeks, but when I get back, I will start looking into this again. I may even get it on a rolling road for diagnostics, Scotty, there is one in Orpington I have found. I'm also going to look into the FI throttle body sync.

Cheers for now
Gareth

bullet · 07-21-2008, 5:51 PM

gareth if your bird uses one O2 sensor i can supply you with an O2 resistor terminator that i have spare ,for free (i' ve bought a pair in the past)..it is an original dynojet with its papers and bag....pm me in you need it

sjtscott · 07-22-2008, 6:01 AM

Gareth I believe the o2 sensors maybe the source of the surging. I spoke to my mate who originally fitted the PC3USB to my CBR600. He spoke to a Dynojet tech in the US (uk were useless and directed him there) who said the o2 sensor eliminator removes something called 'lean surge'. Really interested to hear if adding the eliminator helps.

Gareth60 · 07-22-2008, 6:57 AM

Ok, I might just disconnect the 02 sensor and ignore the FI light. Not sure if i'll be able to do it at work as I think I need to remove the tank. If not, i'll do it at home and report back tomorrow.

G.

louisbiker · 07-22-2008, 8:21 AM

wow, that's interesting, so what would happen if i put a 330 ohm resister in place of the O2 sensor/s ?

could this alone cure the 'lean out' issues?

would it cause any other problems? Fuel Consumption.

I have no power commander...

So many questions..

sjtscott · 07-22-2008, 8:23 AM

My mate seemed to be suggesting just that louisbiker! Try installing the O2 elimintators (2 per blackbird) and give it a try.

Gareth60 · 07-22-2008, 9:36 AM

See Make Your Own O2 Sensor Eliminators - VFRD

I only found one o2 sensor on the Blackbird which is in the exhaust under the rear of the engine as it goes in two pipes.

Gareth

sjtscott · 07-22-2008, 12:54 PM

Gareth - The thread you post contains many references as to the purpose of the o2 eliminators. VFR guys seem to be saying that they smooth the constant throttle below 5k out on their bikes.

Dynojet says there are two o2 sensors and thus eliminators required, but I was only going on what they say.

Anyway.. v interested if this does anything helpful once fitted.
Cheers

Gareth60 · 07-22-2008, 6:02 PM

Hi guys,

Well, hopefully good news. I removed the o2 sensor today at lunchtime (just unplugged it) and uploaded a new map to the PC.

My initial impression on my ride home is that it has fixed the issue. Also, the PC has made so much different to the pull from low revs. My bike feels totally different.

I still need to ride it a lot more, particularly in town, but on my way home today, I deliberately road down 30 and 40 mph roads in 5th or 6th gear thus the engine speed being between 2k and 3k. I didn't get any jerky feeling.

I will post back tomorrow night after another trip to / from work.

Scotty, I only found one o2 sensor. I think some US versions had two unless I’m missing one

Also, i have noticed an improvement in mpg, but I need a few more fill-ups to confirm.

Overall, very pleased. I just now need to find some cans that arn'y too loud.

(

- Cos my son liked it

.

)

louisbiker · 07-23-2008, 4:41 AM

well that's very good news. thanks

Can you update us if there are any other changes/observations.

sjtscott · 07-23-2008, 5:59 AM

Sounds good based on initial results!

Looking forward to some more info as soon as you have it Gareth

Cheers

Scotty

051100xx · 07-24-2008, 10:24 PM

the o2 sensor tries to lean the bike out as much as possible below 1/3 throttle when cruising and this indeed causes a lean surge

when i got my 05 bird i had exactly the same problem and it was fitted with an akrapovic 4-2-1 full system and a power commander 3 usb

so i had a custom map made to suit put a new chain and sprockets on ,adjusted the cables and had the throttle bodies synched but the problem still existed

when i fitted the single o2 sensor eliminator to the loom and plugged the hole on the pipe with the correct bung (12mm x 1.25 pitch bolt)the problem went away totally

i have recently gone back to factory headers (stainless FI ones) and fitted some yoshi rs3 race cans with removable baffles and i have heaps more bottom end drive than with the akrapovic 4-2-1 system and i have just had 2 custom maps made for the new pipes

1 with baffles and 1 without and there is only 3 hp peak less with the baffles and more torque

i only lost 8 hp going from the akra to the yoshi's with the baffles in on the same dyno

baffles in = 145.6 rwhp std airfilter
baffles out 148.5 rwhp std airfilter
akra pipe 153 rwhp k@n air filter

and this was a dynojet dyno and the figures mean nothing in the real world but are just good for comparisons of different mods

i am sure if i ran it on another dyno i would get different numbers

but with a pc 3 + o2 eliminator + custom map = poor fuel economy but more go and a smooth cruise

sjtscott · 07-25-2008, 5:38 AM

Cheers for the info 051100xx!

Looks like I'll start by sorting myself out with an O2 Eliminator!

Gareth60 · 07-27-2008, 5:53 PM

Scotty,

Just remove the plug to test it out. It will have the warning light on the dash, but you wont see that in the daylight.

If you lift up the tank at the back and prop it up (or get you son to hold it like I did

) , you'll see a bunch of connectors under a rubber cover.

Gareth.

ArmyStrong · 07-27-2008, 8:00 PM

Late

and hope you got those bugs out!

louisbiker · 07-28-2008, 3:56 AM

I replaced the O2 sensor with a 330 ohm resistor and the difference is quite amazing. (only 1 O2 sensor on mine)

Way smoother and easier to ride; has a nicer transition from off throttle to on and no surging at all.

Also, interestingly, I don't seem to need as much throttle. Which is very weird I think.

I'll see if i can notice any change in fuel consumption...

So far...so good.

(TOTALLY stock 04 bird)

Gareth60 · 07-28-2008, 6:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by louisbiker

Also, interestingly, I don't seem to need as much throttle. Which is very weird I think.

I thought this also, I found myself actually enjoying riding it slow

sjtscott · 07-28-2008, 9:08 AM

Right I'm trying the O2 Eliminator as the first port of call as both you guys have confirmed to me its working - thats more than good enough for me!

It might be asking a lot but can you show me where the correct connector is under the tank with a pic at all? Appreciated if you are able to do this for me.

Cheers

louisbiker · 07-28-2008, 9:18 AM

Cant get to the bike at the moment. But if you follow the wire from the O2 sensor you can't miss it.

Found this pick from VFRD.

There's only one on my bird, but the position in the plug for resistor is the same. just cable tie the plug from the actual sensor out of the way so that it doesn't fall anywhere and get damaged.

Gareth60 · 07-28-2008, 1:32 PM

No pics, sorry, i'm in Cornwall. But the o2 sensor is in the exhaust under the engine and the wire goes out to the right and round past the engine case on the right of the bike (you can see it if you look close) and in to the main wiring loom in the centre of the bike.

I found it a bit of a pain to get the connector apart until I noticed that you needed to pull the pin and not push it to separate it. You need good light or a torch.

Gareth.

sjtscott · 08-02-2008, 10:14 AM

Ok well my O2 Elmintator is fitted and test ridden, problem sorted! Its a million times better just from a quick 5 min test ride. My bike like louisbiker's is currently 100% stock.

Thanks again to Gareth and louisbiker for proving the theory with their results convincing me to sort this!

Gareth60 · 08-02-2008, 4:27 PM

Excellent, i'm so glad we got this issue sorted.

I'm amazed though that no-one else has reported the issue

.

My father-in-law has a 2008 vfr and authough I have not ridden it, he described simular issues. I'll see if I can convince him to unplug his o2 sensors and see if it helps.

Gareth.

louisbiker · 08-02-2008, 6:34 PM

Quote:

I'm amazed though that no-one else has reported the issue

.

Yeah. me to! maybe lots of people have the problem but it doesn't bother them...who knows.

I've noticed no increase in fuel consumption, which was my main worry.

now...has anyone thought about knocking out the catalytic converters?

sjtscott · 08-03-2008, 8:35 AM

It amazes me too that other haven't noticed this issue. I can only guess most people don't spend much time at low revs with small throttle openings.

I asked the same questions on another british based bird forum and each and every person said no its not normal your bike has a problem.

Gareth - the VFR def has two O2 Sensors and will exhibit the same lean surge issue. Tech at Dobles said that all Blackbirds and VFRs both do the same and that its a standard ECU 'feature' when I initially called to moan that something was up.

I'm def thinking of dumping the cats as there is no legal requirement to run them in the uk since they (currently) don't emissions test bikes on our annual safety inspection (MOT) unlike cars. Assuming that slip on cans would be the simplest way of doing this, I'm right in thinking the cats are in the link pipe to the OE silencer? I'm only after road legal cans with baffles though.

Gareth60 · 08-03-2008, 11:56 AM

Scotty,

I've posted a question about the very same. I would like some more cans, but not too loud.

Which cans? What do you have?

Gareth