Story... of possibly being screwed.

I have a 94' VFR, and a 97' Magna, I needed to upgrade for some more power. Being devoted to Honda's, obviously the Blackbird was the choice. Anyway, I go to check the bike out, it was a 99 listed for 3000, with 11000 miles.(Instantly draws my attention, as well as suspicions). So he lets me test ride it and all, no problem. It had been dropped twice, once on each side, but you wouldnt know unless you looked for it. It looks as if it sat outside for quite awhile, aluminum oxidizing, rust on lower triple tree, dirty interior areas, rust on the inside of the gas tank. So the bike seemed to run fine after riding it, idled well, shifted well, etc. I brought my voltmeter, checked the voltage across the battery terminals at 4k RPM's, good to go...... so I thought.

Talked him down to 2800, awesome deal for 99 blackbird with 11000 miles. (He says just installed new spark plugs right before i got there.)

Bike rides home just fine, pulls like a bastard, etc... Until I look down past the guages and see the front right fork has a small leak, YAY! first big problem, didnt check enough before purchase. Oh well I figure it is the seals, and hopefully not front fork damage from running into something head on.(It had touch up paint on the front fender). So I take all of this with stride and say screw it, I put about 150 miles on it the first day.

Next morning I wake up to take the bike to work, I hit turn key, hit starter, it turns half way and all of sudden just stops. (The battery has plenty of power) It feels almost as if the engine has seized. So I get off, shift it into first and give it a little run and bump.... tire just skids and doesnt turn over. Turns over easier in a higher gear, so I tried the same method with the same result. (Getting scared). Shift back to neutral, back to second, and back down to neutral, starts right up!!! WHAT THE HELL??? I have never heard of anything like this. So after it started, I rode to work, thinking 'crap....this is going to happen when I try to go home after work'. Sure enough, go outside, turn the key engine turns halfway over and get stuck. Get off shift up and down from second, move bike back and forth to try and work the gears around, after a little tinkering it start again and rides right home.

So questions on this... Would not waiting for the fuel pump go through its full cycle cause the bike to seize up? Would a shitty clutch cause this? Would low quantity of dirty hydraulic fluid in the clutch line cause this? What the hell is going on here. I have 2 other bikes and this has never happened.

Also, I have never had a fuel injected bike. If you dont let it warm up at idle for a minute, will it be a little stuttery at low rpm's for a few minutes?


I am just worried about the engine seizure, or gears being stuck.. or other crap. Tranny can be a little clunky. Help Please????


Thanks Everyone

Low fluid level in a hydraulic clutch system can cause difficulty disengaging properly. Are you always trying to start the engine by putting the transmission in neutral or merely by actuating the clutch lever? Always start the engine with the transmission in neutral if this is the case. I'm not really clear on your facts given on how you are starting the bike. So far it sounds as though the engine is just fine if you can get it to run long enough that you can get from point A to B.

-mike-

I'm not tech, as this board knows, but I always wait for everything to cycle through and the temp to show 35C before I ride away. The clutch is noisy and she does clunk into first sometimes. I doubt it's the hydraulic fluid, (I use Motul 5.1) Didn't you know she needed to cycle through and warm up prior to riding? As for the fork, she may need new seals and fluid. Was this guy the original owner? Did the bill of sale indicate a re-build? Did he have a record of service? I would change all the fluids, oil, hydraulic, fork oil, and check the electricals. Good Luck that's all I can offer, questions.

I would check the fuel pressure regulator. Mine leaked so bad once while garaged that it effectively leaked enough fuel into one cylinder that it caused hydraulic lock and the symptoms you describe.
Easy to check, there is a hose leading from the FPR to the intake manifold of cylinder 2 or 3. If the hose is dry, then this is not your problem. Worth checking for a bike that age anyway.

Okay before you start worrying lets cover a couple of things..

1, Pull the right switch block apart and check for corrosion in there. This block takes all the power through it to start the bike and the XX is known for some issues related to this block.

2, Does the neutral light go out when you are attemping to start it.. Check neutral switch and also try starting with the clutch pulled in.

3, Yes, unless you let it warm up a little the autochoke is still going to be engaged and she is going to be a bit stuttery. Like CB I let the bike sit at least untill the idle drops.

Thanks for everyone's input....

Yes I know the bike needs to warm before operating properly. I always start the bike in neutral, making sure the light is on, and for good measure i pull the clutch anyway.


Jeffo, I believe you have most likely nailed it. It feels like it is seized, but I know it isnt. It is most likely hydraulic lock due to a cylinder being half full of gas. When it does not start, i shift into second and rock the bike from front to back which probably helps some of the fuel drain into the crankcase..... WHICH IS WHY there is fuel in my oil!!!! Not cool.

I am hoping it is the FPR, I will check this weekend when I have time. Thanks guys.

I have had a cpl bikes "lock up" from being fludded with gas. The gas gets into the cyl through an opn intake valve. Then when the compression stroke comes up th liquid gas has no place to go and acts as a stoper. Some how it seams as the regulator is letting gas by and its prob going to foul the plugs. (Seing how he just put new ones in to sell it to you).

Did you check the engine oil level?

Originally Posted by crashnbash

I have had a cpl bikes "lock up" from being fludded with gas. The gas gets into the cyl through an opn intake valve. Then when the compression stroke comes up th liquid gas has no place to go and acts as a stoper. Some how it seams as the regulator is letting gas by and its prob going to foul the plugs. (Seing how he just put new ones in to sell it to you).

Sounds about right to me. What was your method to start the bike once this has happened? In my case, shifting back & forth from 1st to 2nd, rocking it front to back, and going back to neutral(doing this process 2-3 times) and then it would start.



If the bike is still warm it WILL start, possibly 2 reasons:

1. There is less time for the oil(oil/fuel mixture actually) to drain from the pistons rings, giving it at least a little lube. Rather than wanting to seize up.

And/or

2. There is less time for fuel to leak into cylinders, which causes hydraulic lock.



I bought the bike hoping for care free reliability, haha so much for that. I should have looked it over better, but when I checked the oil at the time of purchase it was pretty damn clean. It is saddening.


If anyone else has had the "fuel in the oil" problem on a fuel injected bike, please share the knowledge.

Again thanks for everyone's input.

Originally Posted by testrider

Did you check the engine oil level?

Yes, I checked the engine oil level, which is how I knew there was fuel in the oil. Oil does not smell like gas.

First off change oil yesterday. Nothing worse on bearings than gas. After that, the reason rocking it in second worked is b/c you spun the motor backwards and it opened a valve and gas and vapors left.


When its warm its easier b/c the gas turns to vapor easier and your plugs wernt sitting in liquid. Also, its not had enough time to get an adiquit amount of gas in a cylinder.

I fix by pulling out the plugs, turn hit the starter button an watch the gas fly out the plug holes about 10' in the air. Lol

Id say new regulator will solve a lot of problems.

If you can't take em apart and just give it a good cleaning. (Idk never done one).

Inspect you forks and make sure its just the seals. Also check the head of the frame to see if thre are cracks around the weld.




Always be suspitious of new parts on a car or bike. If it ain't broke 95% of ppl don't exchange for new.

Originally Posted by crashnbash

Id say new regulator will solve a lot of problems.

If you can't take em apart and just give it a good cleaning. (Idk never done one).

Inspect you forks and make sure its just the seals. Also check the head of the frame to see if thre are cracks around the weld.



Always be suspitious of new parts on a car or bike. If it ain't broke 95% of ppl don't exchange for new.

Oil change, no doubt. I'll pull the battery and not bother trying to ride until I take care of business(FPR). I agree about being suspicious of new parts on an old beat bike, I was skeptical after hearing him tell me this 2 hours before I arrived to test ride.

Yep, I got fuel in my oil when mine went west. Changed it the moment I noticed and haven't seen any side affects 25,000kms down the track.

Originally Posted by everydayrider99

Oil change, no doubt. I'll pull the battery and not bother trying to ride until I take care of business(FPR). I agree about being suspicious of new parts on an old beat bike, I was skeptical after hearing him tell me this 2 hours before I arrived to test ride.

My guess is he had your problem so he swapped the plugs. That cured the sympton but not the cause.