Battery question - Discuss Battery question on CBRXX, the ultimate on-line community for Honda motorcyclists. Read it in Body / Paint / Electrical / Lights. (Discussion of Honda CBR 1100 XX Super Blackbird Bodywork, Seats, Seat Cowls, Paint, Windscreens, Electrical System, and Lights.)

RazinKane · 06-05-2009, 11:52 AM

My r/r went out a few weeks back, and found a guy who makes "custom racing" r/r's. I had him make one for me and put it on the bike. All seemed to be going good untill one day I got to work went to move my bike and the battery was low. After I got it home I call him, and he came to my house and we tested the r/r and the stator. It turnde out the output of the regulator was a little low, a few adjustments later and the R/R is performing to spec. I have been riding every day for about a week now, until yesterday. I let the bike sit for 24 hours, and wne to start it today and the battery was too low to start the bike. I just got the new OEM battery in April, is it possable that the R/R problem could have hurt the battery already?

Styles · 06-05-2009, 12:26 PM

I saw this from your One Dead Bird thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RazinKane

I have an update everone may be interested in. I found a guy here in the Dallas area that builds R/R, warrantys them for life. the price is a little high, but he will deliver. He told me to do one more test on my stator at the 3 pin plug to make sure there is no short. If all is goo he is going to bring the R/R to me. Here is a link, and I will update as I find out if this thing is any good. (fingers crossed) Race Ads | For Sale: Regulator Rectifiers for most motorcycles

I'd hope your guy really honors his warranty. Insist on it, anyway. You've already had headaches enough.

Styles

RazinKane · 06-05-2009, 12:36 PM

I am sure the R/R is working. The voltage to the battery at 2000 rpm is 14 and as I rev it up it will top out at at 14.9

CanadianBird · 06-05-2009, 8:34 PM

Pennie wise and dollar poor?

Skapan · 06-05-2009, 8:52 PM

If the regulator was letting too much current through you could have overheated and cooked the battery. Is the electrolyte low?

lois · 06-05-2009, 9:01 PM

Regulator/recitifier.

The regulator senses off of ground to control voltage level. The recitifier, " rectifies" the voltage from AC into DC.

The rectifier uses diodes to accomplish this feat. It has 2 Sets, one to rectify output, and the other set stops power from back flowing when the system sits idle. (you know....when your not riding), I would suspect that there may be a problem with one of the diodes leaking, and back feeding a small amount of powerto ground.

Due to the size of a motorcycle battery, it would not have to be a very big leak before the bike wouldn't start.

Lois

Poundstretcher · 06-06-2009, 8:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lois

Regulator/recitifier.

The regulator senses off of ground to control voltage level. The recitifier, " rectifies" the voltage from AC into DC.

The rectifier uses diodes to accomplish this feat. It has 2 Sets, one to rectify output, and the other set stops power from back flowing when the system sits idle. (you know....when your not riding), I would suspect that there may be a problem with one of the diodes leaking, and back feeding a small amount of powerto ground.

Due to the size of a motorcycle battery, it would not have to be a very big leak before the bike wouldn't start.
Lois

If you are confident the R/R is ok, then it must be bad battery or battery drain. If the battery was recent was it fully charged before use?

I would remove the battery fully charge it then remove the charger. Leave for a few hours then check the Voltage, it should read 13 Volts +. If below 12.5 it's more than likely no good.
If the reading is ok put it back on the bike (leads attached) and leave overnight then take another reading if the voltage has dropped significantly you will need to leak test as per manual

GhostRider · 06-06-2009, 8:22 AM

One word, "Odyssey."

The voltage is good but what is the push behind it? Just because the voltage is right doesn't mean the amperage is. I have had alternators that would give you 13.8 to 14.2, which is great but the amperage behind them wouldn't sustain the cigar lighter and headlights.

RazinKane · 06-06-2009, 4:50 PM

I am almost sure it is the batt now. I charged fully and went fo a long ride checked the battery voltage when I got home, and it was a little over 13. I let it set over night and the voltage was 12.5. The bike still started right up and I went for about a 20 min ride checked the batt again, and the voltage was 12.9. Looks like Ill be taking back to the dealership.
Here is a link to to the page of the guy who built my R/R
Regulator Rectifiers
The page is still underconstruction, but PM me if you are interested in a contact number.

GhostRider · 06-06-2009, 6:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RazinKane

I am almost sure it is the batt now. I charged fully and went fo a long ride checked the battery voltage when I got home, and it was a little over 13. I let it set over night and the voltage was 12.5. The bike still started right up and I went for about a 20 min ride checked the batt again, and the voltage was 12.9. Looks like Ill be taking back to the dealership.
Here is a link to to the page of the guy who built my R/R
Regulator Rectifiers
The page is still underconstruction, but PM me if you are interested in a contact number.

Before you condemn the battery you better do a draw test.

lois · 06-06-2009, 7:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poundstrecher

If you are confident the R/R is ok, then it must be bad battery or battery drain. If the battery was recent was it fully charged before use?

I would remove the battery fully charge it then remove the charger. Leave for a few hours then check the Voltage, it should read 13 Volts +. If below 12.5 it's more than likely no good.
If the reading is ok put it back on the bike (leads attached) and leave overnight then take another reading if the voltage has dropped significantly you will need to leak test as per manual

Lois

lois · 06-06-2009, 7:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRider

One word, "Odyssey."

The voltage is good but what is the push behind it? Just because the voltage is right doesn't mean the amperage is. I have had alternators that would give you 13.8 to 14.2, which is great but the amperage behind them wouldn't sustain the cigar lighter and headlights.

And that is why I have saying for three years, seven months, twenty six days , four hours and thirty nine minutes...............a VOLT gauge does not tell the whole story.

Lois

DeathWish01 · 06-06-2009, 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lois

Regulator/recitifier.

The regulator senses off of ground to control voltage level. The recitifier, " rectifies" the voltage from AC into DC.

The rectifier uses diodes to accomplish this feat. It has 2 Sets, one to rectify output, and the other set stops power from back flowing when the system sits idle. (you know....when your not riding), I would suspect that there may be a problem with one of the diodes leaking, and back feeding a small amount of powerto ground.

Due to the size of a motorcycle battery, it would not have to be a very big leak before the bike wouldn't start.

Lois

thats the main point of a diode..... weather it be light emitting or not it only allows energy to flow in one direction

lois · 06-06-2009, 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWish01

thats the main point of a diode..... weather it be light emitting or not it only allows energy to flow in one direction

Good, good Mikey........here's a cracker

DeathWish01 · 06-07-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lois

Good, good Mikey........here's a cracker

where? you better mail it to me ASAP... im hungry

GhostRider · 06-07-2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWish01

thats the main point of a diode..... weather it be light emitting or not it only allows energy to flow in one direction

BZZZZZZZ, way worng answer. While most diodes do allow flow in only one direction, the Zener diode will allow voltages in both directions.

Poundstretcher · 06-08-2009, 1:14 AM

Better not eat that cracker yet Mike.

lois · 06-08-2009, 1:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRider

BZZZZZZZ, way worng answer. While most diodes do allow flow in only one direction, the Zener diode will allow voltages in both directions.

DING......fries are done, and you get the boobie prize.

Lois

uis048 · 06-15-2009, 8:16 AM

A Zener diode does NOT allow volts to flow in both directions (that BTW is a Diac).
A Zener only allows volts to flow after a certain level is reached. A 12V zener will pass NOTHING until 12+ volts is present.

Example: In the olden days of permanent magnet alternators, especially on Triumphs, voltage regulation was effected by strapping a Zener from the live feed of the battery to earth. These Zeners were set to 'avalance' (conduct) at about 13.5 volts. Any voltage ABOVE 13.5 volts went straight to earth, keeping the battery nicely conditioned. A simple solution.... Except they get mad hot, and in the case of Triumphs, vibrated to death!

If anyone wants a treatise on alternators and regulation, let me know and I'll try and explain the whole complicated story in simple terms.

lois · 06-15-2009, 9:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uis048

A Zener diode does NOT allow volts to flow in both directions (that BTW is a Diac).
A Zener only allows volts to flow after a certain level is reached. A 12V zener will pass NOTHING until 12+ volts is present.

Example: In the olden days of permanent magnet alternators, especially on Triumphs, voltage regulation was effected by strapping a Zener from the live feed of the battery to earth. These Zeners were set to 'avalance' (conduct) at about 13.5 volts. Any voltage ABOVE 13.5 volts went straight to earth, keeping the battery nicely conditioned. A simple solution.... Except they get mad hot, and in the case of Triumphs, vibrated to death!

If anyone wants a treatise on alternators and regulation, let me know and I'll try and explain the whole complicated story in simple terms.

Yup...you are correct , and I for one know better, and simply fell asleep at the wheel on that one.

Lois

GhostRider · 06-15-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uis048

A Zener diode does NOT allow volts to flow in both directions (that BTW is a Diac).
A Zener only allows volts to flow after a certain level is reached. A 12V zener will pass NOTHING until 12+ volts is present.

Example: In the olden days of permanent magnet alternators, especially on Triumphs, voltage regulation was effected by strapping a Zener from the live feed of the battery to earth. These Zeners were set to 'avalance' (conduct) at about 13.5 volts. Any voltage ABOVE 13.5 volts went straight to earth, keeping the battery nicely conditioned. A simple solution.... Except they get mad hot, and in the case of Triumphs, vibrated to death!

If anyone wants a treatise on alternators and regulation, let me know and I'll try and explain the whole complicated story in simple terms.

Sure it will and here is an explanation of how.

Zener Diodes

DeathWish01 · 06-15-2009, 10:48 PM

i call BS on that.... diodes are "one ways" for electrons since the electrons are attracted from one pole to another.... that sounds more like a regulator/rectifier....
in fact i just found it...
n.
A silicon semiconductor device used as a voltage regulator because of its ability to maintain an almost constant voltage with a wide range of currents.
[After Clarence Melvin Zener (1905–1993), American physicist.]

NOW I WANT MY CRACKER DAMMIT.... just cause they call it a diode don't mean it is one....

Poundstretcher · 06-16-2009, 7:22 AM

Poor old Mike he keeps picking up the cracker and putting it back down

Stuff em Mike just eat the damn CRACKER!

greysnail · 06-17-2009, 5:28 AM

WIll additional grounding helps to overcome this issue?
Instead of juz relying the bike's original ground,mebbe we can put extra grounding wires on the starter motor,crankcase or wherever there's bolts.Been trying to play with ths idea.

uis048 · 06-17-2009, 6:39 AM

Hi Ghostrider.

Yep, you are a bit righter than I am. I really meant to show that a zener only conducts in the 'reverse' direction once it had reached its zenering voltage. So, up until this voltage, I am right, after this voltage, you are right.... right?

Cheers

Poundstretcher · 06-17-2009, 7:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greysnail

WIll additional grounding helps to overcome this issue?
Instead of juz relying the bike's original ground,mebbe we can put extra grounding wires on the starter motor,crankcase or wherever there's bolts.Been trying to play with ths idea.

seem to remember an article in a 2 wheels mag where the wrench suggested running a extra ground from the R/R to the neg battery terminal

Scrappy · 06-17-2009, 5:26 PM

At tickover with a fully charged battery I'm reading 15.2 volts across the battery terminals, as I rev up the bike the volts drop to slighty above normal levels. Having alot of car experience I suspect the regulator part of the R/R (I havent had a chance to do the tests yet) ... At this point I'm assuming the R/R and not the stator, have any of you known the stator to cause a similar condition?

CircuitBurner · 06-18-2009, 3:10 AM

If the stator does that it will have a direct short to ground somewhere.
Check this chart for a quick and easy inspection of your stators.
www.motovoltage.com/tech.htm
If the stator passes these two tests, its most definitely the R/R failure mode B. (regulator fails and stops regulating)

Poundstretcher · 06-18-2009, 4:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CircuitBurner

If the stator does that it will have a direct short to ground somewhere.
Check this chart for a quick and easy inspection of your stators.
www.motovoltage.com/tech.htm
If the stator passes these two tests, its most definitely the R/R failure mode B. (regulator fails and stops regulating)

Scrappy · 06-19-2009, 5:29 PM

Cheers Chaps, stator checked out fine, no shorts and 0.5 ohms resistance across the board .. new R/R fitted and seems to have fixed the issue, although I suspect I might need a new battery soon

06-05-2009, 12:36 PM	#3
RazinKane Join Date: Apr 26 2008 Location: Carrollton, TX Age: 40 Posts: 84	Re: Battery question I am sure the R/R is working. The voltage to the battery at 2000 rpm is 14 and as I rev it up it will top out at at 14.9 __________________ We occasionally stumble over the truth but most of us pick ourselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.

06-05-2009, 8:34 PM	#4
CanadianBird Join Date: Nov 25 2006 Location: BC Canada Posts: 4,433	Re: Battery question Pennie wise and dollar poor?

06-05-2009, 8:52 PM	#5
Skapan Join Date: Apr 05 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 91	Re: Battery question If the regulator was letting too much current through you could have overheated and cooked the battery. Is the electrolyte low?

06-05-2009, 9:01 PM	#6
lois Join Date: Nov 06 2006 Location: Red Deer Age: 46 Posts: 4,599	Re: Battery question Regulator/recitifier. The regulator senses off of ground to control voltage level. The recitifier, " rectifies" the voltage from AC into DC. The rectifier uses diodes to accomplish this feat. It has 2 Sets, one to rectify output, and the other set stops power from back flowing when the system sits idle. (you know....when your not riding), I would suspect that there may be a problem with one of the diodes leaking, and back feeding a small amount of powerto ground. Due to the size of a motorcycle battery, it would not have to be a very big leak before the bike wouldn't start. Lois __________________ Call me "Captain Mudbucket".

06-06-2009, 8:22 AM	#8
GhostRider GhostRider Join Date: May 09 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 189	Re: Battery question One word, "Odyssey." The voltage is good but what is the push behind it? Just because the voltage is right doesn't mean the amperage is. I have had alternators that would give you 13.8 to 14.2, which is great but the amperage behind them wouldn't sustain the cigar lighter and headlights.

06-06-2009, 4:50 PM	#9
RazinKane Join Date: Apr 26 2008 Location: Carrollton, TX Age: 40 Posts: 84	Re: Battery question I am almost sure it is the batt now. I charged fully and went fo a long ride checked the battery voltage when I got home, and it was a little over 13. I let it set over night and the voltage was 12.5. The bike still started right up and I went for about a 20 min ride checked the batt again, and the voltage was 12.9. Looks like Ill be taking back to the dealership. Here is a link to to the page of the guy who built my R/R Regulator Rectifiers The page is still underconstruction, but PM me if you are interested in a contact number. __________________ We occasionally stumble over the truth but most of us pick ourselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.

06-08-2009, 1:14 AM	#17
Poundstretcher A Rainbird Warrior Join Date: Oct 15 2008 Location: Tasmania Posts: 4,166	Re: Battery question Better not eat that cracker yet Mike.

06-15-2009, 8:16 AM	#19
uis048 Join Date: Mar 12 2009 Location: Manchester UK Age: 61 Posts: 59	Re: Battery question A Zener diode does NOT allow volts to flow in both directions (that BTW is a Diac). A Zener only allows volts to flow after a certain level is reached. A 12V zener will pass NOTHING until 12+ volts is present. Example: In the olden days of permanent magnet alternators, especially on Triumphs, voltage regulation was effected by strapping a Zener from the live feed of the battery to earth. These Zeners were set to 'avalance' (conduct) at about 13.5 volts. Any voltage ABOVE 13.5 volts went straight to earth, keeping the battery nicely conditioned. A simple solution.... Except they get mad hot, and in the case of Triumphs, vibrated to death! If anyone wants a treatise on alternators and regulation, let me know and I'll try and explain the whole complicated story in simple terms.

06-16-2009, 7:22 AM	#23
Poundstretcher A Rainbird Warrior Join Date: Oct 15 2008 Location: Tasmania Posts: 4,166	Re: Battery question Poor old Mike he keeps picking up the cracker and putting it back down Stuff em Mike just eat the damn CRACKER!

06-17-2009, 5:28 AM	#24
greysnail Fastest snail on Earth Join Date: Aug 04 2007 Location: Singapore Age: 36 Posts: 161	Re: Battery question WIll additional grounding helps to overcome this issue? Instead of juz relying the bike's original ground,mebbe we can put extra grounding wires on the starter motor,crankcase or wherever there's bolts.Been trying to play with ths idea. __________________ Its not how fast ur bike goes.Its how fast u brake

06-17-2009, 6:39 AM	#25
uis048 Join Date: Mar 12 2009 Location: Manchester UK Age: 61 Posts: 59	Re: Battery question Hi Ghostrider. Yep, you are a bit righter than I am. I really meant to show that a zener only conducts in the 'reverse' direction once it had reached its zenering voltage. So, up until this voltage, I am right, after this voltage, you are right.... right? Cheers

06-17-2009, 5:26 PM	#27
Scrappy Dog With Atittude .. Woof! Join Date: May 31 2009 Location: Mansfield UK Age: 45 Posts: 496	Re: Battery question At tickover with a fully charged battery I'm reading 15.2 volts across the battery terminals, as I rev up the bike the volts drop to slighty above normal levels. Having alot of car experience I suspect the regulator part of the R/R (I havent had a chance to do the tests yet) ... At this point I'm assuming the R/R and not the stator, have any of you known the stator to cause a similar condition?

06-18-2009, 3:10 AM	#28
CircuitBurner Join Date: Jun 18 2009 Location: Grand Prairie , Texas Posts: 1	Re: Battery question If the stator does that it will have a direct short to ground somewhere. Check this chart for a quick and easy inspection of your stators. www.motovoltage.com/tech.htm If the stator passes these two tests, its most definitely the R/R failure mode B. (regulator fails and stops regulating)

06-19-2009, 5:29 PM	#30
Scrappy Dog With Atittude .. Woof! Join Date: May 31 2009 Location: Mansfield UK Age: 45 Posts: 496	Re: Battery question Cheers Chaps, stator checked out fine, no shorts and 0.5 ohms resistance across the board .. new R/R fitted and seems to have fixed the issue, although I suspect I might need a new battery soon

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