Battery question - Discuss Battery question on CBRXX, the ultimate on-line community for Honda motorcyclists. Read it in Body / Paint / Electrical / Lights. (Discussion of Honda CBR 1100 XX Super Blackbird Bodywork, Seats, Seat Cowls, Paint, Windscreens, Electrical System, and Lights.)

GhostRider · 06-15-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uis048

A Zener diode does NOT allow volts to flow in both directions (that BTW is a Diac).
A Zener only allows volts to flow after a certain level is reached. A 12V zener will pass NOTHING until 12+ volts is present.

Example: In the olden days of permanent magnet alternators, especially on Triumphs, voltage regulation was effected by strapping a Zener from the live feed of the battery to earth. These Zeners were set to 'avalance' (conduct) at about 13.5 volts. Any voltage ABOVE 13.5 volts went straight to earth, keeping the battery nicely conditioned. A simple solution.... Except they get mad hot, and in the case of Triumphs, vibrated to death!

If anyone wants a treatise on alternators and regulation, let me know and I'll try and explain the whole complicated story in simple terms.

Sure it will and here is an explanation of how.

Zener Diodes

DeathWish01 · 06-15-2009, 10:48 PM

i call BS on that.... diodes are "one ways" for electrons since the electrons are attracted from one pole to another.... that sounds more like a regulator/rectifier....
in fact i just found it...
n.
A silicon semiconductor device used as a voltage regulator because of its ability to maintain an almost constant voltage with a wide range of currents.
[After Clarence Melvin Zener (1905–1993), American physicist.]

NOW I WANT MY CRACKER DAMMIT.... just cause they call it a diode don't mean it is one....

Poundstretcher · 06-16-2009, 7:22 AM

Poor old Mike he keeps picking up the cracker and putting it back down

Stuff em Mike just eat the damn CRACKER!

greysnail · 06-17-2009, 5:28 AM

WIll additional grounding helps to overcome this issue?
Instead of juz relying the bike's original ground,mebbe we can put extra grounding wires on the starter motor,crankcase or wherever there's bolts.Been trying to play with ths idea.

uis048 · 06-17-2009, 6:39 AM

Hi Ghostrider.

Yep, you are a bit righter than I am. I really meant to show that a zener only conducts in the 'reverse' direction once it had reached its zenering voltage. So, up until this voltage, I am right, after this voltage, you are right.... right?

Cheers

Poundstretcher · 06-17-2009, 7:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greysnail

WIll additional grounding helps to overcome this issue?
Instead of juz relying the bike's original ground,mebbe we can put extra grounding wires on the starter motor,crankcase or wherever there's bolts.Been trying to play with ths idea.

seem to remember an article in a 2 wheels mag where the wrench suggested running a extra ground from the R/R to the neg battery terminal

Scrappy · 06-17-2009, 5:26 PM

At tickover with a fully charged battery I'm reading 15.2 volts across the battery terminals, as I rev up the bike the volts drop to slighty above normal levels. Having alot of car experience I suspect the regulator part of the R/R (I havent had a chance to do the tests yet) ... At this point I'm assuming the R/R and not the stator, have any of you known the stator to cause a similar condition?

CircuitBurner · 06-18-2009, 3:10 AM

If the stator does that it will have a direct short to ground somewhere.
Check this chart for a quick and easy inspection of your stators.
www.motovoltage.com/tech.htm
If the stator passes these two tests, its most definitely the R/R failure mode B. (regulator fails and stops regulating)

Poundstretcher · 06-18-2009, 4:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CircuitBurner

If the stator does that it will have a direct short to ground somewhere.
Check this chart for a quick and easy inspection of your stators.
www.motovoltage.com/tech.htm
If the stator passes these two tests, its most definitely the R/R failure mode B. (regulator fails and stops regulating)

Scrappy · 06-19-2009, 5:29 PM

Cheers Chaps, stator checked out fine, no shorts and 0.5 ohms resistance across the board .. new R/R fitted and seems to have fixed the issue, although I suspect I might need a new battery soon

DeathWish01 · 06-19-2009, 7:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrappy

Cheers Chaps, stator checked out fine, no shorts and 0.5 ohms resistance across the board .. new R/R fitted and seems to have fixed the issue, although I suspect I might need a new battery soon

YAY!!!!

CBRRich · 08-11-2010, 10:57 PM

Just had my first "non start" from my BB. It's 2003 and I'm assuming original battery. No indications this was comming, started fine until now. Kick started it and drove it home. Voltage read 12.6 off and ~13.5 at 4000 RPM. Restarted OK, we'll see tomorrow.
1. New battery time (I suspect "yes")? What options other than a $150 Yuasa have worked for others?
2. R/R working OK with that output? What should it be?

ArmyStrong · 08-11-2010, 11:12 PM

I would suspect new battery time as well. I'm still on my first one, so can't help there!

BackStreet · 08-12-2010, 5:46 AM

IMO - waiting for the battery to go bad is a mistake; you may end up needing a rectifier and/or stator. The whole system will have to work harder to make up for/recharge a weak battery.

I picked a battery up at WalMart and got the 14 amp which is taller. I took the rubbers from the bottom of the case, put some inner tube rubber to absorb vibration, and it worked fine.

I get a new battery every 4-5 years in the spring. I use HIDs and LED running lights in the front turn signals and the tail lights to reduce load. I do run a GPS, BlackBerry, and radar detector on trips but the total is about the same as a stock bike on high beam.

During the winter I put the battery tender on but I switch it from bike to bike. I charge the battery prior to starting the bike every month in the winter.

Knock wood I still have the original stator/rectifier in my 2003 with 24k miles.

06-16-2009, 7:22 AM	#23
Poundstretcher A Rainbird Warrior Join Date: Oct 15 2008 Location: Tasmania Posts: 4,667	Re: Battery question Poor old Mike he keeps picking up the cracker and putting it back down Stuff em Mike just eat the damn CRACKER!

06-17-2009, 5:28 AM	#24
greysnail Fastest snail on Earth Join Date: Aug 04 2007 Location: Singapore Age: 36 Posts: 161	Re: Battery question WIll additional grounding helps to overcome this issue? Instead of juz relying the bike's original ground,mebbe we can put extra grounding wires on the starter motor,crankcase or wherever there's bolts.Been trying to play with ths idea. __________________ Its not how fast ur bike goes.Its how fast u brake

06-17-2009, 6:39 AM	#25
uis048 Join Date: Mar 12 2009 Location: Manchester UK Age: 62 Posts: 58	Re: Battery question Hi Ghostrider. Yep, you are a bit righter than I am. I really meant to show that a zener only conducts in the 'reverse' direction once it had reached its zenering voltage. So, up until this voltage, I am right, after this voltage, you are right.... right? Cheers

06-17-2009, 5:26 PM	#27
Scrappy Dog With Atittude .. Woof! Join Date: May 31 2009 Location: Mansfield UK Age: 45 Posts: 968	Re: Battery question At tickover with a fully charged battery I'm reading 15.2 volts across the battery terminals, as I rev up the bike the volts drop to slighty above normal levels. Having alot of car experience I suspect the regulator part of the R/R (I havent had a chance to do the tests yet) ... At this point I'm assuming the R/R and not the stator, have any of you known the stator to cause a similar condition?

06-18-2009, 3:10 AM	#28
CircuitBurner Join Date: Jun 18 2009 Location: Grand Prairie , Texas Posts: 1	Re: Battery question If the stator does that it will have a direct short to ground somewhere. Check this chart for a quick and easy inspection of your stators. www.motovoltage.com/tech.htm If the stator passes these two tests, its most definitely the R/R failure mode B. (regulator fails and stops regulating)

06-19-2009, 5:29 PM	#30
Scrappy Dog With Atittude .. Woof! Join Date: May 31 2009 Location: Mansfield UK Age: 45 Posts: 968	Re: Battery question Cheers Chaps, stator checked out fine, no shorts and 0.5 ohms resistance across the board .. new R/R fitted and seems to have fixed the issue, although I suspect I might need a new battery soon

08-11-2010, 10:57 PM	#32
CBRRich Join Date: Aug 22 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 40	Re: Battery question Just had my first "non start" from my BB. It's 2003 and I'm assuming original battery. No indications this was comming, started fine until now. Kick started it and drove it home. Voltage read 12.6 off and ~13.5 at 4000 RPM. Restarted OK, we'll see tomorrow. 1. New battery time (I suspect "yes")? What options other than a $150 Yuasa have worked for others? 2. R/R working OK with that output? What should it be?

08-11-2010, 11:12 PM	#33
ArmyStrong Administrator Join Date: Mar 02 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA via Bronx, NY Age: 41 Posts: 4,810	Re: Battery question I would suspect new battery time as well. I'm still on my first one, so can't help there! __________________ Murphys 6th law of combat operations: If it's stupid but it works, it ain't stupid.

08-12-2010, 5:46 AM	#34
BackStreet Join Date: Nov 04 2006 Location: North Jersey Posts: 829	Re: Battery question IMO - waiting for the battery to go bad is a mistake; you may end up needing a rectifier and/or stator. The whole system will have to work harder to make up for/recharge a weak battery. I picked a battery up at WalMart and got the 14 amp which is taller. I took the rubbers from the bottom of the case, put some inner tube rubber to absorb vibration, and it worked fine. I get a new battery every 4-5 years in the spring. I use HIDs and LED running lights in the front turn signals and the tail lights to reduce load. I do run a GPS, BlackBerry, and radar detector on trips but the total is about the same as a stock bike on high beam. During the winter I put the battery tender on but I switch it from bike to bike. I charge the battery prior to starting the bike every month in the winter. Knock wood I still have the original stator/rectifier in my 2003 with 24k miles. __________________ Best Free or Cheap Mods Last edited by BackStreet; 08-12-2010 at 6:21 AM.

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