Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

This is a longish read re HID lighting kits. Take it for what it's worth. I had a Phillips kit for for many years from Jaws. It was time to replace both kits, which I did. Earlier post(What have you done to your Bird today). The smart arse, post whore, know it all from a local forum posted this link re my hid install. Drivers | Hella USA and Canada

So that's the rest of the story. Thank you for the "Illuminating" post.

Tony "still in the dark with his 55watt H7's" Bagley

Tony, "still in the dark with his 55W H7's, can you make some equally illuminating observations regarding the the Bird's lighting, oem, the reflectors, and the error of installing HIDs in the Bird. I couldn't disagree more with the "prick" on the local site. Many, many folks instal hids in their bikes. My hids have a rubber "gromet" that prevents water from entering the lite housing. Difficult to describe. I see no reason not to install hids in my Bird.

Originally Posted by CanadianBird

Tony, "still in the dark with his 55W H7's, can you make some equally illuminating observations regarding the the Bird's lighting, oem, the reflectors, and the error of installing HIDs in the Bird. I couldn't disagree more with the "prick" on the local site. Many, many folks instal hids in their bikes. My hids have a rubber "gromet" that prevents water from entering the lite housing. Difficult to describe. I see no reason not to install hids in my Bird.

At risk of being painted with the same brush as your local 'friend', I will throw my panties on the stage here. The water ingress mentioned in the article was not referring to the replacement of a halogen lamp with an HID burner, but rather the (more correct, in his opinion) installation of a projector unit into the existing headlamp assembly by separating the lense from the reflector, then reassembling the pieces.

The main argument against converting the bird to HIDs is, IMHO, the amount of light scatter generated by the very different characteristics of the arc vs filament. Oncoming drivers are faced with a rather brutal glare from the low beam that can be annoying at best and downright blinding at worst.

Don't get me wrong, I am currently running an arc burner in my lowbeam slot and quite like the amount of light it produces. I have, however, taken steps to attenuate the scatter by installing a "blinder" to limit the amount the arc exposed to the reflector. I mentioned this in the "What have you done..." thread and included the following photos:
lamp1.jpglowbeam.jpg The first is the blinder I made, just a thin sheet of brass wrapped around a suitable piece of dowel and adhered onto the lamp base with a bead of silicone. The second is the resulting light output. The jury is still out with regards to the improvement.

CB, Both articles describe the reason not to fit HID's as they do not give the correct light dispersion. They can increase glare and in general make you a hazard to other road users since you lights will constantantly appear to them as being in high beam mode.. Both articles read correctly relating to the light dispersion paterns not meeting road traffic regulatory bodies legal guidelines.. In most cases from what i have read countires consider retrofits illegal..

Any of the above could be considered as reasons for not fitting HIDs

However that said..

I fitted an HID low beam so that I did get the additional light... with the wider dispersion pattern..

When I first fitted them I was concious of how other road users acted when I was approaching them both day and night.. I saw no obvious signs that people we having a greater difficulty with visibility when approaching me than with the standard H7's If i had then i would have adjusted them accordingly..

But its like speeding.. if your prepared to break your local laws then you need to be prepared to accept any legal reprocussions that may come your way...

Too late now, I have HIDs and I do speed, occasionally. OMG, you wouldn't believe the flaming when I posted a thank you to a MC shop that did a great job on the install and price. All those guys need are a few nails, a hammer and a cross when the self rightous, holier than thou, self annoited gods get hold of you. Even your own mother isn't safe on BCSB.

CB,
I don't think I've ever read a word on this site that related a down side to the HID install. Some have had operational issues, yes.,a bad wire, a bad ballast etc. Most is not all agree that there is a marked improvement with the HID kits installed. I do tend to agree with the thinking that the linked commentary relates.. that there is a full engineering package that goes into any lighting system to make all the parts work with each other so that the desired end result is realized. That thinking makes perfect sense to me.
We, "the unwashed", might never know that there is any issue with the conversions we do as we still see the "improved light output". Our observations are subjective in that they may be based on a lack of technical information, lack of knowledge and lack of understanding, on the systems we install. Very interesting topic for sure.

I've have a pair of kits myself that remain (as my sig line indicated.."still in the dark") un-installed. Although there fit is something of a "plug and play" system ..well sort of,..it was still not that OEM fit up that I was going after and would like. After all, this is a retro fit of a HID system to a H7 bulb application..so why should they be exactly OEM in nature? (don't answer that) So I've currently opted to stay with the stock twin 55watt H7 setup.

Current riding requirements are such that when on tour we try and get off the road early to stay clear of the critters that have free roam of the highways and by-ways during the evening hours. We ride at night when we must but not by plan. And that is not a "afraid of the dark" line of thought it's just something we choose to do.

I remember that when I first purchased the XX, there was commentary back then (circa 2007) that the lighting was somewhat lacking. I did not really feel this was the case for two reasons. Reason #1 is stated above, "get off the road early". And #2 is "my XX headlight was doing a hell of a good job as is/was." I could light up signs way down the road even in daylight. Some time later I would find out why this was...I had a 100watt bulb in the low beam slot installed by a PO,..go figure. Don't remember ever getting flashed with that bulb in service, and for sure it was nice for output. I would not mind trying it again,.".But it' agin da law mang!"

On the "legal" side of things, I have busted that law before. I ran a complete set (4 units) of CIBIE lights in a 84 Z-28 Camaro that included 100watt high beams...and 65 watt low beams. Shine like the sun for sure. The high beams had to be wired with a relay and heavier wires direct from the battery to ensure the power draw did not melt the factory wiring harness on the car. Loved that set up.

Locally I've not heard of anyone getting busted over headlight install type be it in a car or on a bike, but I don't hear all the news either. But the local Police also tend to get on kicks where they hammer motorist for certain infractions. Things like loud pipes (exhaust mods) and window tint darkness and such. Only a matter of time before the headlight thing comes into play I would guess. (The don't like them boom box cars either I think) One might be best to not draw attention to his or herself to the point that the Police take notice..and then throw the book at you for all manner of infractions once they get you stopped "for rolling that stop sign back there". Ride so that you don't give them the opportunity.

Tony "don't go towards the light" Bagley

Originally Posted by Shewie

Attachment 35750

A noobs question without notice if I may. As you know I've recently acquired a bird. Even more recently the HID kit from JAWS has arrived. Now, looking at that photo the low beam is the upper light, yes? I ask this because the low beam on mine is the lower light. I'm guessing some moron has switched the globes around. I'm double checking before I start chucking the HID in........

Cheers.....

Correct the low beam is the high light hehehe

Thanks Steve.

Really woulda upset the natives fitting it in the lower light lol

I dont agree the article stating HIDs appear to give more light so you see better than you actually can
making it unsafe.
They are not spot lights but riding lights,i dont have any fitted normal beam on the xx is adequate enough high beam is good too.
Also i have ridden side by side with a bike that has them and the difference can be seen.

I think there is a fundamental flaw in the test results from the "Daniel Stern" site. These tests were conducted using headlight housings using the old style fresnel lenses and not modern day reflector type assemblies. The old style headlamp assemblies were designed to have the light source be close to a point source at a specific focal point in order to get the proper dispersion pattern as well as a parabolic reflector.

Modern assemblies use a clear type lens with segmented reflectors to achieve the desired result. Part of which is to have less diffused light come through the middle of the lens (clear part) so as to get maximum light output straight down the road.

HID's tend to have a slightly longer light source so you will get more side dispersion on a modern assembly.

IMHO I don't think the tests done apply to the XX at all.

I installed a non H4 relay and a H7 bulb 65W on a low beam, i a better lighning and a max volts go to bulb because the relay installed i no voltage lost in the thin wires oem.

For relay:
http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Products/Non-H4_Kits/non-h4_kits.html

For bulbs:

Candlepower Shopping Homepage

I'm not installed HID system because plus the "glaire" in halogen receptacle.

In future, i installed a 80W on my high beam blackbird.

Scuse my bad english, i a french man.